i agree on most parts here, and i thin ktrance will be uhm.. better...

i dont care if hip hop dies or any thing, as long as that super annoying sax killing funky drummer-loop abusing beyotch barbra streisand r'n'b dies out. i hate that beyonce shit... omg..

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Last edited by itsamemario on Jun-16-2005 at 13:46

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Originally posted by PutBoy Got my wishes though: 1. EDM will kill hip-hop ('til it dies, maddafakka! Stupid apes...) 2. As someone said, Trance will be produced by composers, I mean real ones, a new Mozart will emerge! And I will be the most famous of them all! 3. Music will be free. Copyleft will kill Copyright. 4. We will get more creative by the day. We will produce tunes no-one ever heard 5. Trance will go public, everybody would want it! (see point 1) That's about it though...

I really hate to quote you and use your examples, and know that I'm not flaming you at all for your opinions, but I do want to briefly comment on these before saying what I want to say.

1. Black people had a HUGE impact on the creation of dance music; the reason it was unique and not cookie-cutter boring like it is today is because they could only afford "crap" instruments, which turned out to be the god instruments of the next 20 years. I'm not fond of Hip Hop either, but don't fight the wave, ride it.

^ The reason I say this is because black people always started the best trends (JAZZ, SWING, HENDRIX, DANCE, and these days it is HIP-HOP)

2. If you write music, you just composed something. Further, the advent of faster internet connections and more powerful PCs has created a massive proliferation of digital home studios. We all have one here; it means a lot more BAD music, and also a lot more AMAZING music from people with great ideas who normally wouldn't have been so priveleged as to be able to use the instruments available today!

3. Copyright has nothing to do with something being *free*; all of my music is free, but it is also all copyright. You can't steal my tunes and make money off of them, that's what copyright is for.

4. My point in posting is in relation to what you said (People will get more creative by the day). The thing about dance/trance is that our music is limited by our (albeit awesome and powerful) synthesizers. We are at the mercy of ACCESS, waiting for them to release a hypersaw so that we can advance trance to the next level. Technology is trance, and this is why it may seem cold and unhuman to some people. Give it time, because the machines will eventually be able to produce things infinitely more human than we ever could. The future of trance will be very long lived in many different forms to come, and technology is what will dictate where and how it progresses. We are the instruments for a change.

5. I agree.

K sorry for the long post, this is a great thread though. Cheers!!

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby 1. Black people had a HUGE impact on the creation of dance music; the reason it was unique and not cookie-cutter boring like it is today is because they could only afford "crap" instruments, which turned out to be the god instruments of the next 20 years. I'm not fond of Hip Hop either, but don't fight the wave, ride it. ^ The reason I say this is because black people always started the best trends (JAZZ, SWING, HENDRIX, DANCE, and these days it is HIP-HOP)

What has race got to do with this? I'm assuming your crediting peoples of certain races to the development of EDM.

Anyway, EDM was started by Kraftwerk... not Grandmaster Flash as a lot of people seem to think. Even the likes of Big Electric Cat and Skinny Puppy probably did more for the current trance scene than Hip Hop ever did. I'm not saying Hip Hop doesnt have its place, but I dont think that it was ever really an infulence to the evolution of trance music, unless you cite the prodigy and early rave jungle as an infulence... which is dubious at best. Even back then, the distinctions between trance and jungle were already pretty aparent.

The production on a lot of old skool hip hip is quite good, but the canned RnB shit that passes itself off as hip hop these days is just pathetic. Please dont even try and compare it to the likes of less commercial forms of EDM be it trance, DnB, house or whatever. Somehow RnB always gets brought up in trance debates. Is it because trance lovers just hate the shit or does the connection go deeper? God I hope not.

Theres a thought... I wonder if the current trends in Industrial will have any impact on trance in the future. By that, I'm referring to EBM and Futurepop.

For those who dont know what I'm talking about ... imagine Rank 1 syle supersaws mixed with Frankie goes to hollywood style lyrics and a healthy dose of retro styling and you have Futurepop. Its pretty ugly to watch and the lyrics are cheesy and depressing but nonethelss interesting to watch another genre abuse the supersaw.

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(this is not a direct reply to Axolotyl's comments)

I read someplace that Trance grew out of House. And House is based on Funk. Funk is considered a mellow branch of Hip Hop!

Black Nationalist H. "Rap" Brown is credited with starting Rap the music genre as part of the 1960s Black Arts Movement.

But then it came full circle, when Afrika Bambaataa started "New School Style" of rap using more synths and drum machines. He was inspired by "techno pop" out of Europe and Asia (Kraftwerk and Yellow Magic Orchestra).

Funk was a more 'party friendly' branch of hip hop/rap. It later influenced West Coast Gangsta Rap's sound.

I think a strong argument can be made that *ALL* popular music flows out of Blues. Rock n Roll, country, jazz, dance music, EDM, etc.

Now before you think I am starting a flame war or am some smart kinda guy, I have been reading this book for some inspiration, "Rap Music and Street Consciousness" by Cheryl Keyes
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

I only hope my comments might provide some food for thought or small ideas for all you Trance producers. Someday I will be one of you

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Who is the buddha master that makes the grass green?

I don't think the supersaw will die, but we will see more original uses and variations of it. The supersaw is to trance like the guitar is to rock. No guitar - no rock music.

over the past year ive got really into breakbeat. I can't beleive that no-one has actually mentioned it here. The likes of evil nine and adam freeland are really movin the genre forward and new producers are goin into it all the time. Its really progressin at a massive rate and think its partly because it can be combined with so many other genres - rock, rap, hip-hop, trance, funk, house. The variety within breaks is absolutely massive and thats why its able to appeal to a lot of people and gain a bigger following.

With trance being my first love ive listened to loads of tracks that all sound very similar. Tracks that i like but don't really help in pushing the genre forward. I find trance now very pigeonholed, the sad fact is that if someone makes a track that takes the elements of trance and moves it forward its already put into a new genre instead of saying oh yes this is trance. I think the industry is waiting for a new sound to come along an push the trance seen forwards, to me it has become very static in the last year or two, ther has been very good tracks but nothing that has to me grabbed trance by the neck to push it forward.

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Originally posted by Aquarian I don't think the supersaw will die, but we will see more original uses and variations of it. The supersaw is to trance like the guitar is to rock. No guitar - no rock music.

agreed. Supersaw kinda defines trance, doesn't it?

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SUPERSAW DEFINES TRANCE???? are you guys on drugs? get over it man!! Trance is a feeling not one single sound...get over using the supersaw because you think thats what trance stands for....yes maybe at one time it was amazing but remember its only been around for a few years and trance has been around much longer than that.

All I can say to sum this whole thread up is, Trance is, what it is because of how it makes us feel not what sounds are used...to think like this would be like saying painters could only use oil paints(fucking supersaws) to make paintings...does that make sense...hell no.

remember that trance is a feeling, through, mind, body, and soul,.....explore what is in you, and DEFINE yourself in your music....thats what trance really is, and thats what trance will always be!

blah blah blah... trance is a genre the fucking word has nothing to do with it, ANYMORE. whats progressive in progressive smart ass... lol.. ofcourse trance is entrancing but there are lots of "trance" genres if you take it by the meaning of the word

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Originally posted by dj jasonF whats progressive in progressive

Heheh... That has bothered me alot.

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Originally posted by Aquarian I don't think the supersaw will die, but we will see more original uses and variations of it. The supersaw is to trance like the guitar is to rock. No guitar - no rock music.

The supersaw was innovative back in 99-00, now the only thing it defines is generic sounding uplifting trance. How can you have variations on something which is in essence just a bunch of detuned saw waves? Add more saw waves to it I suppose

It's such a specific way of programming a synth that it makes me surprised that so many producers seem to want to use it, even though it makes their sound so similar to other similar producers. Its not like its hard not to program a supersaw. I guess its just part of the uplifting sound. I'm sure there will be innovations down the track, but it's definately flavour of the decade.

Personally I find the sound really muddy. It's such a broad and unspecific sound that kinda starts to sound like white noise after a while. Oh great, here comes another supersaw... raise your hands everyone.... Give me one cracking oscillator pumping out a single wave... let me actually hear the waveforms rather than filling up the entire spectrum with big noise.

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look back to most old school trance tracks, it was arpeggios back then. not saws.


we need FORWARD thinking producers. the saw is fucking old, let it die. time to move on.

use your creativity. it seems to be a rarity in todays music. stop trying to produce trance. just create songs without the specific intention of making it sound a specific way before hand. if you normally use trancey kick samples for your song, use a different type of kick drum. instead of 4/4 beat, do some wacky shit. instead of your standard trance lead, make some crazy squelchy sounds that dont fit any profile. nothing will make me believe that making trancy music is all you have in you.

i urge some of you to really try this: stop listening to music for about two weeks. in that time, ill be really suprised if you havnt made something completely unique sounding (that is if there are further complications disallowing you to do so...).

just stop getting fed any outside influences and see what happens.

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