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Originally posted by bananas well one thing I know European girls > American girls

lookout we got einstein in here.

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When you start to criticize the times you live in, your time is over. ~Karl Lagerfeld

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Originally posted by Arno F I think you should get some more info about ww2 before talking, you're a big disgrace for every polish person who fought over here in europe.

I think everyone bashing back and fourth here is a disgrace to every soldier that fought in the world wars. Seems to me that everyone claims to be the history expert but bottom line, our countries united to fight evil. If they wasted time bashing each other like we do now we'd all be dead.

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When you start to criticize the times you live in, your time is over. ~Karl Lagerfeld

This topic has flared up in just about every regional forum and subgenre forum that I look at.

But there are still conflicting accounts over what actually took place at this party, one side beleives it was uncalled for and the other says that this party had it coming because of what was happening over there. Reports are still coming out, more and more people are coming forward and saying they were there and it happened this or that way.

Large parties like this aren't generaly a good idea in America because of the drug connections that exist in the scene, there is no denying that they exist and are something that most every person who goes to these parties encounters eventually. There is a really big meth problem that is associated with clubbing in my home state for example.

Not all the Americans beleive that drugs are such a big deal, but the majority do, and we have to accept losing out to the majority because it is impossible for everyone to always agree. I don't see what busting a party has to do with Iraq or London or Normandy, you guys seem to have pent up frustrations that you are looking for an excuse to vent. Not all Americans beleive that they are the best and the sole source of good in this world, although many Eurpopeans would rather have people beleive that.

Parties in America are best kept low-profile, a succesful EDM scene in the US is is best maintained in a more de-centralized way. The parties are genreally more personal and the scenes are smaller and tighter, this allows for easier filtering of the bad elements from the crowd. Sure I wish thousands could gather freely without worring that cops are gonna come with dogs and chase out the people who happen to have guns or drugs, but it just isn't feasible because most Americans dont trust the users of these drugs which in turn means they don't trust the parties that those people gravitate towards.

The problem has to be stopped at its source, stop the drugs, give society a better impression of the partying scene, once they trust it the parties can continue. That doesnt mean no more fun, that just means people have to get fucked up responsibly. I read that this party was supposed to be legal, but all the legal rights fly right out the window when guns and drugs are found and people have to be prepared for that. There is no such thing as legally breaking the law.

Musical events in other genres that are of a similar size have much more security, there are usually cops and medics on site for those types of things which is part of the reasoning why other music styles can get away with the drugs and the guns and raves can't. This party had a permit, but still shocked the authorities because of it's chaotic appearence and the reality that children of those influential mormon families were out there taking drugs. You just don't throw a large rave and let little kids show up to it and get obnoxiously fucked up, you have to filter out the crowd and only allow the responsible people to participate.

I think the European scene works much better because of a combination of a reputation for responsible partying and a more relaxed view on drugs, not so much because of a general problem in America. America just goes with the majority and the majority here don't trust it, and they are within their rights to think that way.

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Originally posted by Greedy lookout we got einstein in here.

thank you.

Yeah I have visited Seattle on occasion. I agree some places are really cool about it and there are fun times to be had at those places. I have some family in Port Angeles.

It isn't like that here in the south, our scene has to fly under the radar in order to exist. It is hard to get to those crazy parties where one can really let themselves go unless you already know other kids who are going. The parties that are advertised are the nights that end at 2am, are 21+, and feature a famous DJ. Some of the places I have been were just asking to get busted though, it makes me upset seeing that because you just know it will happen one day, the worst was this one party I went to in Roanoke Virginia in a place called club Audio. I was 18 at the time and I felt like the oldest person there, I was the only one not rolling and it was obvious. There was a kid in the bathroom who had his own desk with wads of cash laying on it, the kids were ASKING for it. Shame on the people who throw those kinds if parties for not keeping their attendees safe from the cops by allowing blatant drug use, at least make people be stealthy about it so the party can happen without getting raided. Sure enough Club Audio was raided and shut down about a month after my night there.

Maybe next time I find myself in Washington you can point me towards one of these parties?

It's not ONLY the fact that they busted the event. The event could have been busted if EVERY SINGLE PERMIT in the books was filed for and accepted.

The fact is, no matter how legal ANY event is, if there is pressure from an outside force, it can be illegally closed down. A friend of mine had similar things like this(on a smaller scale) happen in the Philidelphia area, where EVERY relevant permit was submitted and accepted, and the event would still get shut down for wahtever new reason the police would come up with.

Another thing is, this event was closed down in an EXTREMELY hostile manner. Look at the tape, they are BEATING and KICKING people on the ground. 4 vs 1. And there are numerous reports of dogs attacking people. Of course they have to be aggressive but they can't ASSAULT people whenever the hell they want. I'm glad there are lawsuits forming. Good for them.


It shouldn't matter if they were in Utah either. As far as I know, there aren't laws permitting group assault on a potentially innocent people. And having drugs on you does not give anyone permission to start beating the shit out of you.

Stop accepting this kind of stuff as normal. It's the exact same reason that gas prices are through the roof. People accept them so they continue to determine what is the highest stable point they can go. Don't keep accepting shit that keeps getting more and more aggressive and ridiculous. It needs to stop.

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Originally posted by djallure I think you need to travel somewhere and see certain parts of the world before you make human rights violation claims. Is there a link anywhere to an actual media outlet with an actual fact based news report about this second Tiananman Square. Also, to those bashing the United States, get over yourselves, if your that political, than get off you ass, get off your computer and this forum and do something productive; hit the streets, write your senators or MP's or whoever, run for office, but if all you can do is voice your ignorant and flawed views on a Trance Music forum than get a life and f-off. I've lived in Europe for a good part of my life and to be candid the things I couldn't stand were the jeolousy the bitchiness and the endless substance-lacking talk. If you don't like it, change it... and tell me when your done otherwise it's more bullshit that no one on this side of the Atlantic wants to here.

I always vote, and have written senaters on many topics, including this one. Whether other people vote for the same people as me is not my business; democracy is the freedom of choice, and expression of opinions. What pisses me off is people that don't vote, they don't deserve to live in a democracy, and alot of people our age don't vote.

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Originally posted by Srezic It's not ONLY the fact that they busted the event. The event could have been busted if EVERY SINGLE PERMIT in the books was filed for and accepted. The fact is, no matter how legal ANY event is, if there is pressure from an outside force, it can be illegally closed down. A friend of mine had similar things like this(on a smaller scale) happen in the Philidelphia area, where EVERY relevant permit was submitted and accepted, and the event would still get shut down for wahtever new reason the police would come up with. Another thing is, this event was closed down in an EXTREMELY hostile manner. Look at the tape, they are BEATING and KICKING people on the ground. 4 vs 1. And there are numerous reports of dogs attacking people. Of course they have to be aggressive but they can't ASSAULT people whenever the hell they want. I'm glad there are lawsuits forming. Good for them. It shouldn't matter if they were in Utah either. As far as I know, there aren't laws permitting group assault on a potentially innocent people. And having drugs on you does not give anyone permission to start beating the shit out of you. Stop accepting this kind of stuff as normal. It's the exact same reason that gas prices are through the roof. People accept them so they continue to determine what is the highest stable point they can go. Don't keep accepting shit that keeps getting more and more aggressive and ridiculous. It needs to stop.

Where is the link to the video of people getting beaten?

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Originally posted by Srezic It's not ONLY the fact that they busted the event. The event could have been busted if EVERY SINGLE PERMIT in the books was filed for and accepted. The fact is, no matter how legal ANY event is, if there is pressure from an outside force, it can be illegally closed down. A friend of mine had similar things like this(on a smaller scale) happen in the Philidelphia area, where EVERY relevant permit was submitted and accepted, and the event would still get shut down for wahtever new reason the police would come up with. Another thing is, this event was closed down in an EXTREMELY hostile manner. Look at the tape, they are BEATING and KICKING people on the ground. 4 vs 1. And there are numerous reports of dogs attacking people. Of course they have to be aggressive but they can't ASSAULT people whenever the hell they want. I'm glad there are lawsuits forming. Good for them. It shouldn't matter if they were in Utah either. As far as I know, there aren't laws permitting group assault on a potentially innocent people. And having drugs on you does not give anyone permission to start beating the shit out of you. Stop accepting this kind of stuff as normal. It's the exact same reason that gas prices are through the roof. People accept them so they continue to determine what is the highest stable point they can go. Don't keep accepting shit that keeps getting more and more aggressive and ridiculous. It needs to stop.

I agree. I have been called an "American Basher" here for not accepting standards lower here than what previous generations here have fought for. I live here, and I have relatives that work for the federal government, and fought in previous wars. This country is headed in the wrong direction,( that hopefully will change in a year ) but a bunch of Eurobashers talking shit about a country they've never been to isn't going to make the world political stage any better.
The Average American has very little control over what our leaders do.

If they get away with what they did in Utah, they will get away with it elsewhere. I want to keep up with this story to find out how the lawsuits turn out, and what happens with the ACLU involvement.

As for what happened in the Czech Republic mentioned earlier, does anyone have a link to a news article about what happened there?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by colonelcrisp
dont bother... we dont want you here in canada either.


Guess what, I lived there 20 years, and I like it there, because most people there aren't stupid and rude like you.

I'm equally proud to be a citizen of both countries. I don't think the public anywhere in Canada would tolorate what happened in Utah whether there was drug use, or not. Though not perfect, I really can't complain about the political leadership and climate in Canada right now.

People need to get beat up for bringing drugs to a party if that is what it takes to stop little kids from getting caught rolling in public

Gas prices need to be rediculously high if thats what it takes to stop people from wasting it.

You have to get the approval of all the authorities to throw these parties, not merely a permit from some beurocratic city office.

Just my POV

I have gathered alot of quotes from people about this topic:

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Stop doing ecstasy in public people!

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the big deal is legality. you cannot deny that kids are walking around in plain view getting straight fukt out of their minds at these events. you can have fun at events w/o being blatant about it. there wouldn't be an issue if that was the way people conducted themselves. if you'll notice, the police dog had a huge interest in your boy wearing red. and I find it hard to believe that he was tazed if he was laying on the ground, not resisting, or running his mouth. take a listen to all the sneers pouring out of the crowd of 1500 and you tell me what you would have done. I would have made an example out of some smart ass punk too.

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drugs, weapons, and an overdose, to boot? also, there is a solidified charge against the promoter for throwing an illegal event sorry guys, but if you throw an event deemed to be illegal by ANY authority (I don't care what permits a city secretary hands you), add drugs, guns, and an overdosed minor..............well, what did you expect? your rights are flushed. period.

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First off illegal events are not cool..It knocks the hard work of real promoters down a steep flight of stairs..weapons are for punks..and what do you need a weapon for at a party anyway? military force should never be used on civilian disturbances..these guys are trained...well trained to put people down and do it fast..and you cant blame these guys either..they are given orders and have to follow them..this is one nasty event..Im sorry it took place..but lets all learn from it..peace

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I love the way some people try to defend drug use at raves by saying it's rampant at rock concerts as well. At least rock music fans aren't stupid enough to draw attention to themselves with glow sticks when they do thier drugs. Large scale public raves are a nuisance. People can still get their rave on in small numbers and at private locations. and something tells me that party kids that were dealt with asked for it. nowhere did I see an officer kicking the SCHIT.COM out of somebody peacefully leaving the property.

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the point I am trying to make is that the "man" was after some serious felonies, and he got just what he was looking for because the "people" gave them to him. play with fire, get burned... throw an outdoor rave in Utah. lol; now that's just stupid. I'm not saying I agree with the government, but we typically don't have a leg to stand on when we're slinging guns and selling drugs to minors who eventually overdose. come on, people.......

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I have never - and probably will never - realize the necessity of tear gas. has it truly been substantiated that tear gas was used? I only saw smoke from smoke machines and dust getting kicked up by the helicopters. and no, you cannot screen everyone for drugs.......but guns? I certainly hope so. I still blame this on the promoter, drug dealers, and gunslingers.... It's terrible that people were hurt, but how many of them were people that didn't get arrested for drugs or weapons? how many were innocent? I'm sorry, but when you are in the middle of what is deemed to be a "crime zone", shlt happens..... it is no secret that the government dislikes raves, so incedents like this will likely pursue. it's a shame, but edm promoters and partygoers have been shooting themselves in the feet for years. throw an outdoor event, be prepared for the worst! at least screen for weapons, for crying out loud....

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The cops definately could have handled this in a more professional manner, however, if I were the promoters throwing an event of this size I would have already alerted the cops and had them there for additional security to help weed out drugs and weapons and such. Isn't that how large scale rock concerts and festivals work and events such as Starscape???? Especially if soo much money was spent on the event they could easily have hired some additional security! I know I have never been to one without plenty of additional security around. So from the cops perspective it looks like they were trying to hide something from the beginning. But I think that there was a lot of unnecessary violence and much more patience could have been exercised on the cops end of things in handling this situation.

they just go on and on, this is a very popular topic in the forums at the moment, most of the quotes I took appear to be coming from veteran partyers scattered around different message boards.