quote:

Originally posted by chanoa i like to debate with people that a) research what they are arguing b) haven't made up their mind 100% before getting all information c) willing to listen to others arguments that would exclude jayx1

I have done plenty of research... I have made up my mind because no matter how you look at it, its wrong to promote proejudice (this is what i was taught growing up all my life)...

I am always willing to listen to others. But having formed a solid opinion about something that is fundamentally wrong isn't a bad thing.

The only justification of this reverse racism is done by those who have been successfully guilt tripped for past injustices (of which they personally had nothing to do with) and those who benefit from this discrimination.


To all those who support this.. tell me something.

I have never treated anyone with malice or prejudice because of how they looked or where they come from. I have always tried to be as fair as possible when dealing with everyone in life. So why should I be told i cant have certain jobs simply because of the colour of my skin?
Why am I forced to pay for something someone who may look similar to me may have done (often in other societies) many years in the past? I am sorry but there is no justification for ANY racism.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I have done plenty of research... I have made up my mind because no matter how you look at it, its wrong to promote proejudice (this is what i was taught growing up all my life)... I am always willing to listen to others. But having formed a solid opinion about something that is fundamentally wrong isn't a bad thing. The only justification of this reverse racism is done by those who have been successfully guilt tripped for past injustices (of which they personally had nothing to do with) and those who benefit from this discrimination. To all those who support this.. tell me something. I have never treated anyone with malice or prejudice because of how they looked or where they come from. I have always tried to be as fair as possible when dealing with everyone in life. So why should I be told i cant have certain jobs simply because of the colour of my skin? Why am I forced to pay for something someone who may look similar to me may have done (often in other societies) many years in the past? I am sorry but there is no justification for ANY racism.

This isn't about you. i know that its hard to see past how something affects you. its human nature to feel personally victimized. Whether u agree with quota systems or not ( i don't really care) but at least look at it from a broader point of view. Quota systems were put into place as a temporary and quick fix for a problem Canada had. There was not enough visible minorities in high positions in Canadian companies. Quota systems were put into place to even that out, so that in 1-2 generations time there will be no need for quota systems at all (there has already been talks of phasing it out)
Quota systems also do not allow jobs to be given to those who are UNDER qualified. You still have to be able to do the job. You just might not be the absolute best person for the job.

Racism whether u like it or not still exists. And when you have a company with the entire upper management consists of Canadians of Western-European descent, the likeliness of getting a female of say… Sudanese descent into upper management is difficult. This is not to say that all these men are racist and sexist, but its proven that you relate more to those who have similar cultural upbringings. She will have a hard time getting close to these men, while the guy who grew up in Oakville with British descent will have no problem fitting right in with them. And when it comes time to promote, who do you think they’ll think of?? Even if she works a little harder then he does..stays later nights.. brings in a few more clients..

That doesn’t sound fair either does it. But don’t worry. In 3 years when upper management is a evensteven mix..this problem won’t exist anymore

Furthermore to say this is the same as the racism this country was at one time a proud supporter of is absolute ludicrous. The intent is completely opposite. This isn’t about preventing the white male from getting the best job, or fear of having the white man becoming someone powerful. This is about seeing an accurate representation of all races and sexes in the job field. Once that happens quota systems are no longer necessary

As I said I don’t care what side you stand on. Both arguments make sense. But please, when arguing this, try to look past your own “victimization”. Proof of point does not come thru sad stories about how “your” being attacked

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 so you support racism as long as its agaisnt whites? Thats pretty sad

I really don't know how I feel on this issue.

I'm just saying your post made me laugh.

You should try laughing sometime, Jay! Might get that stick outta yer ass

Ok so the reason why Sudanese women may not be in upper management is simple. How long have there been vast amounts of sudanese women in Canada? 20 years tops? How long does it take to climb the corperate ladder? Probably at least that same amount of time within a company or having experience in that line of work. By natrural extension it would probably take about 30-40 years for Sudanese women to naturally end up being in top level management. Immigrants need to start at the bottom rung just like the rest of us. Why punish the white CEO for his long hard work just because someone who looks different suddenly showed up and started crying about not being the CEO?

And its hard not to look past my victimization when i am being told blatantly that i cannot have a job because of how i look. Especially when i have been raised to believe that this sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable. I dont care if its for 1 week, 1 generation, or forever. 2 wrongs DONT make a right.

You are right though, racism still does exist. Whites vs blacks, asians vs indians, jews vs muslims. In a society as mixed as ours sadly this will always be the case. But to have the government sanction certain elements of racism with one hand and actually make other forms of it a criminal offence with the other is blatant hypocrisy.

Lets end political correct bullshit and let the best man or woman have the job regardless of skin colour. Whats so scary about that? And if the best men happen to by mostly white, or mostly black, or mostly whatever, then so be it.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I really don't know how I feel on this issue. I'm just saying your post made me laugh. You should try laughing sometime, Jay! Might get that stick outta yer ass

those who know me, know my laugh quite well.... but topics like this have become quite a sticky point for me.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Like I said in the past:

quote:

I don't believe in supressing minorities, I believe in supressing everyone and letting the tough survive.

LOL...well at least its equality even if stalinesque

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Jayx1, I can honestly say that I understand and agree with your perspective. Too oft, there is a strong shift in terms of what is considered racially acceptable. I cannot ever condone selective political correctness. It seems that if you're a white male today, almost any racial comment is acceptable, as long as you're the target.

While I don't necessarily agree (as I said I don't quite know how I feel on this topic) - my interpretation is that the government sees its responsibility to create jobs for minorities or those with disabilities because many organizations do not.

Two wrongs do not make a right, but when minorities and disabled folk cannot get a simple job (and the one you posted is as simple as it gets in the government - it is entry level) - who is responsible for providing work for them? and what easier way to do that than within the government itself?

Question for you Jay - if the government chose to spend money on programs that would place minorities and disabled people within OTHER organizations, would you sanction that?

or would you bitch about the money?

What solution do YOU suggest for this particular issue? Keeping in mind that equality does not exist in every workplace (hence the profiling for this position).

I find your threads to be tiring because all you do is bitch and whine about the way things are. I think your strong political views would be more accepted on this board if, either instead of or alongside your liberal attacks, you proposed a solution and argued why it was a better solution than what is currently in place.

Jayx1 is the stereotypical Federal Conservative Party supporter. 90% of what comes out of their mouth is bitching, and 10% are solutions.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper While I don't necessarily agree (as I said I don't quite know how I feel on this topic) - my interpretation is that the government sees its responsibility to create jobs for minorities or those with disabilities because many organizations do not. Two wrongs do not make a right, but when minorities and disabled folk cannot get a simple job (and the one you posted is as simple as it gets in the government - it is entry level) - who is responsible for providing work for them? and what easier way to do that than within the government itself?

hmm, really good point. However, there are a large number of minorities that come to Canada with no proper education or relevant work experience, and it is people like these that should NOT be given a fair chance over someone who is actually qualified to do the work, even if it is an entry level position.
Having said that, it would be a better option to create training courses and facilities, involved in minor 'official' projects where individuals such as these can GET the proper training and education. Maybe I have somewhat of a biased view. However, I have seen the plight of people fully eligible for work, but due to certain discriminatory policies, kept from a decent job. I've seen this first hand within my own family, and it was a problem we had to deal with for years after our entry into Canada.

Ive posted the solution many times...

We need to allow the skills and qualifications that immigrants come with to be accepted in Canada. I would not be against the government funding programs that ensure that foreign trained doctors and other professionals credentials match or exceed canadian standards. I would not support special education programs for immigrants only however. Their qualifications should be determined as acceptable to Canadian standards BEFORE they arrive. This would be a much better and more significant way to solve the problem of under-employed immigrants. Then from that point everything would be completely equal. I would outlaw qouta based hiring practices and implement that system.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill