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Originally posted by est Nice one - youve successfully picked up the basics Chords: THe chords on the riff that you're referring to basically map out how the harmonies change in the tune. In this case, you have a chord change every bar (with 4 beats per bar). YOu have Eflat, Bflat minor, Bflat minor again, the F minor. Think of this 4 bar progression as a kind of 'musical sentence'. THen you go back and do the same chord progression again. THe chord progressions are the framework of the piece - the melody (vocals etc) change over the top of that. In this piece, there are lots of things going on. You have a voice over the top and a bass too. As you're only have a meagre keyboard, you'll have to be creative! You could play the smae in both hands to start off with. Or, try playing the chords together in the left hand and arpeggiated in the right hand (this is when you just spread out the notes of a chord instead of all notes down together at once). This would be simple (and probably boring) but a good way of getting used to chords and playing with both hands. If you find the coordination of both hands difficult, do hands separately first. If your keyboard has a 'record' function on it, you can record yourself playing the right hand, then play the left hand over it until you get used to it. Yes. Though keyboard differ in size. OK - pianos are arranged in octaves, with 7 white notes per octave. THe musical alphabet goes from A to G (then starts again at A): A B C D E F G A B C D (e.t.c.) As I said, the easiest note to find is D and this is always the one between the 2 white notes. You will find several D's on your keyboard (depending on how good your keyboard is). So if you label those first, then you can work on the rest from there. Use your ear to decide. Play it, and if it sounds too low then go up an octave. (Clue - high, but not too high) OK what I'm saying is that if you like, you can gain a lot from listening really carefully to a tune then just playing roudn with the notes on the keyboard until you get something that sounds rihgt. (I learned Tori Amos 'Winter' that way). And I play around for literally hours jsut playing stuff I think sounds cool. No riffs, no tune I'm trying to play - just me and my notes If you're learning piano, do get access to a piano whenever you can, at a friend's house, in the university, in a church, wherever...You'll notive straight away the difference in weight on the keys and the amount of expression you can put in compared to a keyboard. YOu can also play around with pedals

So I've been practicing everyday. I'm currently learning Bass Clef G and can find notes without cheating like Floor. It's a bit of a struggle to play different octaves with both hands simultaneously but thats what I'm working on now. Tunes I've mastered include "Chant of the Monks," "Scenic Train Ride" "My Invention" "Boot, Scoot, Doggie" (ohwee so CRAZAY!)"Fife and Drum" "Piano Tuner" "Call of the Red Wagon"

But I mentioned "Clocks" not sounding like I hear him playing it. That I was only using one hand and it was really simple, due to the 8Note link. You said to be creative. I can do that but aren't there books that are composed EXACTLY how the piece is being played by the artist? I understand it wouldn't be at my level, but just in regards to the future. I've read reviews at Amazon and many have said "not exactly how it sounds" or "minor holes in composition" . Is that always prominent? Is there a certain printing company that you reccomend that is always a precise replica of the artists work?

Last edited by Estella on Sep-24-2005 at 16:19

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Originally posted by Estella So I've been practicing everyday. I'm currently learning Bass Clef G and can find notes without cheating like Floor.

Good girl. Using labels on a keyboard is like learning to beatmatch with a beatconter.

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It's a bit of a struggle to play different octaves with both hands simultaneously but thats what I'm working on now. Tunes I've mastered include "Chant of the Monks," "Scenic Train Ride" "My Invention" "Boot, Scoot, Doggie" (ohwee so CRAZAY!)"Fife and Drum" "Piano Tuner" "Call of the Red Wagon" But I mentioned "Clocks" not sounding like I hear him playing it. That I was only using one hand and it was really simple, due to the 8Note link. You said to be creative. I can do that but aren't there books that are composed EXACTLY how the piece is being played by the artist? I understand it wouldn't be at my level, but just in regards to the future. I've read reviews at Amazon and many have said "not exactly how it sounds" or "minor holes in composition" . Is that always prominent? Is there a certain printing company that you reccomend that is always a precise replica of the artists work?

Youre very keen to play clocks arent you! But without hearing you play , it's difficult to know what the problem is.

Think about it. Colplay is a band - not just a guy playing the piano. There's no way you can reproduce the sound of an entire band on just a piano. That's why people form bands with many different instruments - together they can get a richer sound. In the tune clocks, the piano plays the riff that repeats itself throughout. The reason it sound empty when you play that is becuase you are effectively taking an element of a piece designed for a band, and playing it without the rest of the instruments.

You can buy what's called an arragement of the popular tunes such as these: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...5665304-7877463
An arrangement is when a piece is rewritten so as it can be played, in this case, by piano, vocals and guitair. But again, you only have a piano. Can you see what I'm getting at?

But if you can give me some more detail about what the problem is with clocks then I might be able to help. Is it the notes? If you play along with the CD does it just seem like a singer out of tune?( If so then it just needs a transposition which I could easily do.) Or is it something else??? MORE INFO PLEASE?????????

hahaaa

I don't know what it is about Clocks. I really hate it actually. But the piano work in the beginning and throughout the tune just hit me.. somewhere, somehow. Plus, the restaurant I work in hires piano players. The pianist played Clocks and it came with such a forrrrrrcceee that I was stopped in my tracks. Actually everyone was. You could have heard a pin drop. It was georgous. Ok. The 332 interval notes. That can't be ALL IT IS. In about the first 40 seconds of the tune, just the sole piano playing, it sounds full to me. I wouldn't think it to need to be polyphonic or have accomp. For example. Tori Amos' "Bells for her" is very minimal. Monophonic, correct? Just melody and accomp. I understand that of course the sound will be fuller with accomp. but on this site: all I've played is this: http://www.8notes.com/school/riffs/...play_clocks.asp

THAT seems very, very minimal... even compared to in the beginning of the original tune, which contains only his piano playing.



ohhh! maybe its because of my toys - r - us keyboard? the notes don't resonate. they sound "plastic"

or my right hand! it's only playing the treble. should the left be doing something in the bass clef?

Thanks for all your help, by the way Est. I've noticed my posts only getting longer and longer, meaning your going to NEED to be here more and more

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Originally posted by Estella hahaaa I don't know what it is about Clocks. I really hate it actually. But the piano work in the beginning and throughout the tune just hit me.. somewhere, somehow. Plus, the restaurant I work in hires piano players. The pianist played Clocks and it came with such a forrrrrrcceee that I was stopped in my tracks. Actually everyone was. You could have heard a pin drop. It was georgous. Ok. The 332 interval notes. That can't be ALL IT IS. In about the first 40 seconds of the tune, just the sole piano playing, it sounds full to me. I wouldn't think it to need to be polyphonic or have accomp.

He didn't go out and buy the sheet music to clocks though. Nor did he play the piece in the exact same way as coldplay does. But he's heard them play it, and memorised things like the chord structure, the bass, the melody, and the structure of the whole piece (where the riff begins again, where the voice comes in e.t.c.). He has enough experience with the piano to incoroprate all this and play it on a piano. THis comes from years and years of practising and playing by ear.

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For example. Tori Amos' "Bells for her" is very minimal. Monophonic, correct? Just melody and accomp.

For a start, bells for her is played on a honky tonk piano (basically a deliberately broken piano). Most of this is played with one hand with the occassional left hand interjection. The harmonies are complex in this piece though, which is what makes it interesting.

(BTW: The correct word for a lone instrument is 'solo'.)

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I understand that of course the sound will be fuller with accomp. but on this site: all I've played is this: http://www.8notes.com/school/riffs/...play_clocks.asp THAT seems very, very minimal... even compared to in the beginning of the original tune, which contains only his piano playing.

That's becuase its just the riff you're playing - just one element of the whole tune. The restaurant guy was incoroprating the vocals and the bass also.

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ohhh! maybe its because of my toys - r - us keyboard? the notes don't resonate. they sound "plastic"

GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO GET ACCESS TO A PIANO

If you dont have a piano of your own, make it your mission find somewhere that does and use it at least once a week.

Your keyboard should at the very least be touch sensitive (when you press a note harder, it gets louder like a piano).

You see the written notes on the website, some of them have wee arrow heads over the top? That's telling you to emphasise those notes (put some extra weight on them so those notes come out louder). Make these notes sing.

If youre keyboard isn't touch sensitive you wont be able to do this, explaining why it sounds 'minimal'

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or my right hand! it's only playing the treble. should the left be doing something in the bass clef?

The tab says to play the same an octave lower in the left hand. Note that coldplay doesn't do this in the recording though so I'm not sure why the website says that you should...

The lessons will help you get an understanding of the theory and give you a head start on technique, how to manipulate the sound of a piano and so on. As for playing by ear, try starting off with simple melodies of tunes that you like (NOT 'bells for her' - the vocal line to 'winter' would be ok though). At first you'll be hesitant - youll notice whether the melody goes up or down and whether its a big or a small jump. But carry on like this and youll soon realise what a 3-note jump sounds like, for example.

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Thanks for all your help, by the way Est. I've noticed my posts only getting longer and longer, meaning your going to NEED to be here more and more

Glad to help The more questions you ask the more it shows youre learning so it's a good sign really.

Last edited by est on Sep-24-2005 at 20:20

hahaa yeah. I only knew that because of my Music App. class this semester. And homophonic is only vocal or acappella. A Buddhist chant for example. *exits nerd mode.

Thanks again, Est. Now it all makes sense. I'M MOVING ON. I'm taking on Winter now, until of course I recieve the Coldplay sheet music.

I'll send your paycheck via. FedEx.

wtf PUT THAT BACK UP! Always making me look like a loony *STAB

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Originally posted by Estella wtf PUT THAT BACK UP! Always making me look like a loony *STAB

if that was meant for me then im confused...you can feel free to ask me any other piano questions! It's cool as it makes me think from a beginner's perspective.