quote:

Originally posted by EtherealSL i think all genres are on the same level

Sorry dude but of course not all genres are equal, is dumb, is like to compare progressive rock with hip hop, obviously for technical reasons Hip Hop is not even a 1% near to progressive rock, there is music that involves musical studys, technic, etc, I can ensure u this, anyone with very lil skilz, a sampler and a beatbox can do hip hop, but very few can do progressive rock, academic music, jazz.
For god sakes dude, just listen to the top 20 of hip hop and u will know what I mean .....
Man, even african music done by the trives, people that stills living of the hunt, making weird rituals etc, people that you could say, primitives, even this people have music that involves polyrhythm.
"Poly rhythm is the systematic exploitation of different rhythms performed simultaneously" plz dont confuse it with asimetric rhythm that is usually used in comercial music
I have taken classical guitar since 8 years ago, finished harmony, contrapoint, choral arrangament, several jazz workshops, classical guitar workshops, and I am currently taking the composition carrer, and let me tell you, u can analize Trance, and u can listen some really nice chord progressions, jumping from minor to major and not being only in I/IV/V always as most of the comerical music, but the 90% of Hip Hop has nothing to offer than some beats and a badass attitude.
I am not telling Trance is wow awesome, but compated to Hip Hop is too much more interesting and has too much more to offer.
I am not trying to do a war or sort of, plus all began with this guy telling ous to shut the fuck up, if he cannot enter to a forum without react with insults to critic, then he is just showing ous the classic hip hop attitude.
And I repeat you, anyone with very poor skilz, a beatbox and a sampler can do Hip Hop, but not everyone can do real music like Jazz, Progressive Rock or Academic music, usually mistaken as classical music.
Anyway, I am not here to waste my time with technical explanations about why Hip Hop is one of the signals of decadence of the music industry, you can have the final word, and good luck with your Hip Hop I am off from this thread.
Kopi =o

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Last edited by kopi_luwak on Oct-14-2005 at 06:30

PDM, "real music is what is closed to classical music." I guess our definations of music are extremely different.

Kopi, the top 20 hip hop tracks atm are ALL garbage, agreed, i think you have to dig a lil deeper than popular charts to find quality music.

ehh... i can't really win this argument on a Trance forum... i've seen people (SoM) try to do this before and its impossible to drive their point through, lol, so i'm gonna save my time.

To each his own.

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quote:

Originally posted by kopi_luwak hip hop sucks blah blah blah

I didn't wanna get involved in this but oh well.

If I read your argument correctly (and I believe I did) you're trying to say that hiphop is inferior to trance because it is not as melodically involved??

Coming from someone who I thought had a very broad appreciation for music that seems rediculous.

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quote:

Originally posted by kopi_luwak I can ensure u this, anyone with very lil skilz, a sampler and a beatbox can do hip hop

i am sooooo tempted to write something along the lines of "you're a f**king retard" but i'm not going to.

you're wrong, though.

if you've been studying classical guitar for 8 years I guess that gives you more than "lil skilz"? so get to it then. next post i suggest you post your latest hip-hop tune or stfu.

if anything, classical music should be considered retarded. sure it has the melodies, the amazing chord progressions and it has depth and layers. but you get techno (or hip-hop if you will) going in a club, nothing but a beat, a bassline and some effects on top of that, and you get people dancing like crazy! just like we did thousands of years ago to nothing but a rhythm.

quote:

Originally posted by d_enajetic C'mon duke, you gotta come better than that. Now you're sustaining hiphop? According to some in this thread they shouldn't coexist. Which is it?

No dude, I'm serious... we got Ishkur. It doesnt matter what you know or think you know about EDM history, or what kind of heat your packin for that matter. He will slowly dis-assemble your argument piece by piece and re-arrange it according to his perverted timelines. He's like the Borg, resistance is futile.

I appreciate your open minded view of cross genre producing too. I'd have a go, but I make psytrance, and well... it would just sound rediculous.

And no... industrial and by that lineage goa or psy never came from hip hop or techno or anything like that. Completely different origins.

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quote:

Originally posted by PDM Sry man, but just the idea of remixing a hip hop track using trance makes me puke, I would end up creating something way different and then it wouldn't be a remix, why? because Hip Hop does not offer anything musically, one of the weakest genres of music today, yeah, it is popular, but the popular is not always what is good , and this is no exception. And if you don't wished to be attacked then please do not attack us proposing a remix for your genre, that is an insult to our culture and musical taste, I know there are some hip hop forums where you can offer someone to do a remix, go there, and leave us alone, free us with your overreacting and arrogant attitude.

Wow, have you EVER heard any good beats??? And no, i don't mean those regular beats containing 1 60-70's ska/disco sample looped over and over again...

There are few beatmakers out there knowing their shit, and since you (i assume haven't heard it) don't know ... it's best to keep you mouth shut about something you don't know jack about...

Saying that hip-hop isn't musical is like when ignorant shitheads says that's trance is all about pushing a couple of buttons and you've got your song... clearly you lack enjoying/hearing what's musical and not... and for that i feel sorry for you man...

however... if i miss understood you, and you said that hip-hop doesn't offer YOU anything... then it's all good cuz people can't enjoy every single style which is out there.

quote:

Originally posted by kopi_luwak I can ensure u this, anyone with very lil skilz, a sampler and a beatbox can do hip hop, but very few can do progressive rock, academic music, jazz. For god sakes dude, just listen to the top 20 of hip hop and u will know what I mean .....

Hey! ...and everyone with a computer can do trance!! I really feel sorry for you wasting those 8 years not learning anything about music... though practice is good to get your finger skills up...

Im not taking anyones part here... but WTF WHAT HAPPENED TO PLUR???



The lesson learned today is that... no matter what genre, there will always be good and bad productions, people who has diffrent opinions about diffrent styles... but if it got instruments in it... it's music as far as im concerned... being able to enjoy as many diffrent styles out there is one of the greates gifts a man can have IMHO!

We should embrace music... not spit on it... we all like it, just in diffrent forms... diffrent expressions... different emotions can sometimes be interpeted as the same for different persons.

EXAMPLE: I don't like hardcore in anyform (trance, rock)... i can't stand it... but i respect the people who do like it, and i don't think that it shouldn't be called music...

Concerning "the hip-hop gansta attitude", it's something that MTV came up with... and it was just all a silly way of making money... which unfortuanatly is being taken too serious by some artists/retards who think it's "cool" to rob/kill people...singing about "bitches" and "hoes" ... though in some songs from some artists there is a bit of irony in it...

Last edited by expanded on Oct-14-2005 at 11:21

quote:

Originally posted by expanded ... but WTF WHAT HAPPENED TO PLUR???

Dude, it has been dead at least since 2000, it is the MUSICAL RAGE that has been taking place.

"U no like me music, me kill u!"

EDM genre or scene, whatever, used to have more open-minded (musically and generally) people involved, but nowadays it seems to be the same as with any other "Top-of-the-Pops-ignorant-people". (<- that does not mean I think pop-listening people are ignorant, just could not find a better way to express myself...)

Now that being said however, excuse me, but I have to grab my Tech 9 and pay a visit to a certain [add a genre here] producers studio because I think their tunes suck big time and should not be allowed to live.

Respect to Derrick/Tasherre for seeking out cross-genre remixes (rare thing, really), though this forum might not be the exactly right place as crowded with all those 'look-I-can-make-trance-ch00ns-with-my-computer' people.

So much strong opinions, so little knowledge and definately too much time to spend at various Internet forums flaming people.

yes, props to them...

in fact, they're living proof that it doesn't have to be a war between hip-hopers and trancelovers...

Many may not be familiar with this name but Kanye West is an exceptional producer his music has an uplifting vibe to it believe it or not. A man that struggled to get where he is by prouducing music with an actuall purpose come on let's be serious about it. The man even has lyrics that make sense, and his usage of samples and sound give his songs alot of atmosphere. He can manipulate his synths there's no doubt about that.
He's the only good Hip-Hop producer/Artistx I've seen up to date that's decent.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kris Xperiment Kanye West .. He's the only good Hip-Hop producer/Artistx I've seen up to date that's decent.

timbaland?

his productions together with missy elliot are always "cutting edge". different from most other hip-hop out there..

outkast create some weird sounding hip-hop. different from most other tunes.

Haha, oh man...

What's with all these people saying trance and hip hop can't coexist? You can combine *any* genres. Look how well D'n'B combined with both jazz and trance to form new styles.

Some may think that they are incompatible simply because they haven't been listening to trance very long, and are used to hearing trance sets with one over-inflated piece of super saw pop schlock after another. I assure you folks that this isn't what trance is all about.

I haven't listened to these acapellas yet, but given the right style and rhythm, it would not be hard to fit rap lyrics to a trance tune at all. Yes, it would obviously have to be less linear and formulaic trance, perhaps even a bit of a throwback to the pre-'99 days; and it would probably be a subset of the lyrics rather than the entire acapella; but so what? It's still the same genre.

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hey guys out there bashin this guys hiphop remix contest.... if you guys look into your trance history.... you'll see that there was a band called stereo(something or other) who infected the dancefloor and the rave with their blend of rap and trance/house music.

besides if you all look into the rap history and the rap underground scene.... there is some actullay GOOD artists out there... or even in the mainstream scene (black eyed peas, beastie boys, k-os, the fugees). although those are like uh..... the only good guys from the mainstream.

[rant]50cent is nothing but a man who was shot 9 times and still lives. he has no musical talent whatsoever he just talks over the music poorly done by his cowriter. hell i wouldn't be suprised if he didn't write his own songs. the people he appeals to?? the wigger community that try and be like him... who have no reason to act like a pimp or ho... depending on gender lols. think about it for a second. a pimp... lots of th time the girls are either too young (say 8 for a pedophile's twisted ideas, or thirteen maybe, and the 20 year olds are just plain scary... infected with something from someone else... probably high off heroin and generally fucked)[/rant].

but ya disregarding the "i fucked this girl yesterday and i killed this guy on thursday" attitude if you take that away and leave it with people who are actually poor, black, chinese (generally non-white) you get magic and decent sounding stuff (try the fugees on for size)

and here i am contradicting myself... generally non-white... hmmm earlier i mentioned the beastie boys as being good... they're white... don't quite know what to say... but if you loook in the underground scene you'll see all these amazing artists that actually make stuff that can be called music (ugly duckling, dj format, lyrics-born)

and as for mixing together genres.... Venetian Snares (underground scene) took a trip to hungary and lived as a hungarian.... if you don't know who he is... he is a crack inspired drill'n'bass artist... prolly the best in his game... anyway he took a trip to hungary and learned about the culture and made an album (believe me here) with orchestra strings layered over high tempo brain frying, buzzy drill and bass if you don't believe me... look up "venetian snares-Rossz Csillag Allat Született" yes the names in hungarian but its definately worth a listen... the album comes from a guy who labels his other albums like winnipeg is a frozen shithole....

anyways... looks like i might end this thing in shithole...

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Last edited by canadian didjer on Oct-14-2005 at 16:56