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| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
*shakes head* I've lived in California, Washington (state, not DC), South Carolina, Illinois, Maryland, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia. You on the other hand haven't, so don't tell me about what it's like in the East. I have first-hand experience with it and am perfectly aware of how things are there and here. 
I don't see how that qualifies as imposing your beliefs on others. All that indicated is that they're more practicing. Everyone has a right to bring up their children as they see fit. Teaching your children about what you think is the right thing has nothing to do with forcing your beliefs on others. They don't "force" them to do shit, especially once they're old enough to make their own decisions. Infact, my parent never taught me anything about Islam and everything I've learned is on my own. Plus, I don't see Muslims going around telling people that they need saving (and many of my non-Muslim friends have verified this, so it's not just my opinion). I, on the other hand, am approached atleast once or twice every semester by a bible thumper who won't leave me alone for quite a few minutes.
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I don't understand how you can state flat out that Christians are worse than Muslims in this case. I agree fully that Christians are much worse when it comes to doing missionary work/enlisting new recruits, but muslims are (today) much worse at enforcing their religious values on others. Cases in point: Iran hanging people for being gay. The wish for Sharia laws among regular people in Iraq. The Muhammed drawings/Jyllandsposten affair, where entire countries of muslims demand an apology/intervention by our PM.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
What? How? |
In short, a transaction is taking place between two parties, both of them walking away happy, and no-one else will ever be affected by the trade, yet you still get upset. That's irrational - and being irrational is a necessary (though not sufficient) condition for being a fundie.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
All I did was express an opinion on it. I didn't take any sort of action whatsoever. How exactly am I "meddling in other people's affairs?" |
Sorry. I didn't express myself very clearly. The "you" was meant to be the general "you" (as in "you shouldn't drink and drive"). I was refering to people getting upset and being very vocal about it in the media. Expressing an opinion in that way, *is* meddling in other people's affairs.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
I guess it's hard to understand for an areligious person since there really isn't anything sacred for him/her. |
How would a religious person know? I.e. how can you know that my feelings regarding the record is different than you feelings about the Quran?
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
^^^^Please tell me where I said that.
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You called him a "dick". I would say that's a negative label, and hence deduced that you were critical of his actions. What did you intend to say?
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
^^^^Or that.
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Ah, ok. So you're only angry with the guy offering the deal - but not those who accept it? Does that make sense?
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Please be more specific here so I know what you're talking about. If this is a reference to fundamentalists/etremests in denial of plausible scientific theroies or facts (such as advocating creationism in a science class), I totally understand.
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I really don't see what you write here has to do with what you quoted?
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Well, a persons behavior really doesn't have anything to with religion unless he/she actually practices his/her faith (sorry, if it seems like I'm being nit-picky here, just making a clarification  ).
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Yes, I agree. I was giving a general comment, that I do not see any logical/practical/ethical reason why I, as a person, a priori need to respect the beliefs or behaviours of some other person. It doesn't matter whether these beliefs or behaviours have anything to do with religion (e.g. the KKK example - which you didn't answer, btw).
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
As for the second part, I thought it was universaly understood that we we're supposed to respect each other. 
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Please distinguish between respecting someone and respecting his/her beliefs.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Huh?
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Do you respect the belief that the white race is superior to all other races? If not, did you initially respect that belief? If not, then you have a priori refused to respect someone else's beliefs - the very thing you don't like others to do.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
How so? I tresure those deeply too. Infact, those are both integral parts of Islam.
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An organized religion gives you rules according to which you should live your life. By following those, you abandon responsibility for your own life and actions to some degree.
As for critical thinking: Rational thought leads to the two conclusions: Given the evidence available
- no human can know that there is a God, and
- no human can know what a possible God might like and dislike.
Organized religion is the claim that there is a God, and that the religion's clergy know about his preferences.
EDIT: Oh yeah. As long as you don't resort to ad hominem or strawman attacks, you don't have to be afraid of offending me.
Last edited by trancaholic on Dec-09-2005 at 18:46
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