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Originally posted by Aquarian I'm using the term equal in the sense of "the same", not in terms of superiority/inferiority.

and they do think they are the same.. not that they should have the same oportunities.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On OOKA-OOKA ME NACHOS ME PRESS KEYS ON COMPUTER GOOD

I think that the entire philosophy behind feminism is misunderstood. Perhaps I am wrong, but when I think of a woman wanting to be viewed as an equal to her counter-part, I am thinking she wants to be equally VALUED, RESPECTED etc., not to be seen as being the male equal in all its intricacies.

If we look at the definition again:

equality

n 1: the quality of being the same in quantity or measure or value or status [ant: inequality] 2: a state of being essentially equal or equivalent; equally balanced ; "on a par with the best"

those are the things that stick out when I think of feminisim "equality". It is obvious that no 2 people are equal to each other on any level, whether female or male, so it would be absurd to make a blanket statement like "men and women are equal" in the sense that they compare to each other on all levels.

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Originally posted by nchs09 and they do think they are the same.. not that they should have the same oportunities.

House wives don't claim to be doctors or engineers because they were raised as house wives, and those that started the movement in the 50s will forever be bound to their housewife roles, but the point was to open the door for the new generations to become doctors and engineers.

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Originally posted by Theresa In both cases though, the groups were oppressed because of their label. A lot of the reasoning behind female oppression was justified by the catholic church. It does make sense to a degree, but I am not entirely sure I agree that it is similar enough to compare.

again...the REASON for their oppression is irrelevant.

you asked if popular feminism is broken. I'm saying it is...because the movement has lost momentum...because many younger women don't "fight the fight" anymore because they've achieved enough of a margin of "equality" and protection under the law.

just as gays more recently have as well...so younger gays don't take as active a stance as previous generations.

anyway...ignore the comparison then...the point remains the same...the feminist movement has lost steam because women have, to a large extent, achieved what the movement initially sought..."equality" and protection under the law.

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Originally posted by Theresa I think that the entire philosophy behind feminism is misunderstood. Perhaps I am wrong, but when I think of a woman wanting to be viewed as an equal to her counter-part, I am thinking she wants to be equally VALUED, RESPECTED etc., not to be seen as being the male equal in all its intricacies. If we look at the definition again: equality n 1: the quality of being the same in quantity or measure or value or status [ant: inequality] 2: a state of being essentially equal or equivalent; equally balanced ; "on a par with the best" those are the things that stick out when I think of feminisim "equality". It is obvious that no 2 people are equal to each other on any level, whether female or male, so it would be absurd to make a blanket statement like "men and women are equal" in the sense that they compare to each other on all levels.

if it was like that.. i wouldnt of taken half a semester on this....


they do think they are equal and thus should recive equal treatment.. while they fail to see that they are different yet still deserve equal treatment. or better treatment since im such a romantic
\

anyhow im done with the subject.. its hard for me to argue online since i cant hear poeples voice tone etc...

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On OOKA-OOKA ME NACHOS ME PRESS KEYS ON COMPUTER GOOD

I'm sorry Theresa but all the feminists I have run into have a chip on their shoulder. They're angry at men and have a superiority complex. Women have gotten the short end of the stick through out history and still haven't reached full equality but its more of a social issue not one of individual desire of men to supress them. Sure all feminist aren't this way but the term has come to represent the negative traits I mentioned. Whether you like it or not the meaning of the word feminism has changed.

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GIGANTIC CUNT

why the hell did you post this in the COR? its like watching a bunch of goldfish argue quantum mechanics.

theresa, i did my dissertation on feminism, if you have any particular questions feel free to PM me.

what all of you seem to be missing is that feminism has as many sub-genres as EDM, and to categorically state "feminism is this" or "feminism is that" is far too simplistic, and often contradicts an entire section of feminist thought.

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Originally posted by MarkT again...the REASON for their oppression is irrelevant.

not if the the answer to female subordination can be found in the reason for their oppression. of course the reason is important. to understand the problem is half the task in providing a suitable alternative.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN why the hell did you post this in the COR? its like watching a bunch of goldfish argue quantum mechanics. theresa, i did my dissertation on feminism, if you have any particular questions feel free to PM me. what all of you seem to be missing is that feminism has as many sub-genres as EDM, and to categorically state "feminism is this" or "feminism is that" is far too simplistic, and often contradicts an entire section of feminist thought. not if the the answer to female subordination can be found in the reason for their oppression. of course the reason is important. to understand the problem is half the task in providing a suitable alternative.

so our arguments are that bad? enlighten me... plz

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On OOKA-OOKA ME NACHOS ME PRESS KEYS ON COMPUTER GOOD

Alright, there are many different types of feminism. I think the 2 main categories would be the:

1. feminists who hate men
2. feminists who love women

There are hundreds of sub-categories underneathe those two, but I think those are the 2 dominant ones.

I guess it is sort of hard for people to have a debate on something broad like feminism because there ARE so many different kinds, how can you pin-point one and make a fair judgement?

I do not think the first is good. These types of feminists are destructive. They do not fight for the power of women, they fight for the destruction of men. It defeats the entire premise on which the feminist philosophy is built upon in my opinion.

My personal belief is that feminism is to try and abolish the entire idea of inferiority/superiority. No one is better than the other, regardless of gender, we are all human and deserve the same treatment as another. I extend this belief to all people; handicapped, criminals, famous people, etc.

But like I pointed out, there are a lot of different kinds of feminists, some good and some bad.

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Originally posted by Theresa Alright, there are many different types of feminism. I think the 2 main categories would be the: 1. feminists who hate men 2. feminists who love women There are hundreds of sub-categories underneathe those two, but I think those are the 2 dominant ones. I guess it is sort of hard for people to have a debate on something broad like feminism because there ARE so many different kinds, how can you pin-point one and make a fair judgement? I do not think the first is good. These types of feminists are destructive. They do not fight for the power of women, they fight for the destruction of men. It defeats the entire premise on which the feminist philosophy is built upon in my opinion. My personal belief is that feminism is to try and abolish the entire idea of inferiority/superiority. No one is better than the other, regardless of gender, we are all human and deserve the same treatment as another. I extend this belief to all people; handicapped, criminals, famous people, etc. But like I pointed out, there are a lot of different kinds of feminists, some good and some bad.

clearly the only ones who stick out, are.. just like everything.. the ones who stick out. the radicals

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On OOKA-OOKA ME NACHOS ME PRESS KEYS ON COMPUTER GOOD

pkc, I hadn't seen your post before I posted my last one.

Thank you for pointing it out

I would like to know what you have to say on the topic.