quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 By denying driver's licences to kids who drop out, you are actually promoting poverty. Why? Perhaps the kid is forced to get a job due to family hardship?

So let me get this straight, family is poor, extremely poor...so much so that child has to dropout of school due to "family hardship"...they promptly drop out, use their license and earn money with a car....where is this car comming from exactly? People with whom are considered poor to the point of poverty rarely have access to a vehicle, and further to that point, generally the cost of a license is out of the question.

Your argument was flawed, just wanted to show you why.

Ah fuck it I will take this one step further, child is poor, child drops out, Why?
When going to school is the most signifigant step towards ending a cycle of poverty. Undertsanding fully what the conservatives did to the educational system and all, the Liberals are taking a very strong positive step towards positivly altering the course of our young generation.

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 So let me get this straight, family is poor, extremely poor...so much so that child has to dropout of school due to "family hardship"...they promptly drop out, use their license and earn money with a car....where is this car comming from exactly? People with whom are considered poor to the point of poverty rarely have access to a vehicle, and further to that point, generally the cost of a license is out of the question. Your argument was flawed, just wanted to show you why. Ah fuck it I will take this one step further, child is poor, child drops out, Why? When going to school is the most signifigant step towards ending a cycle of poverty. Undertsanding fully what the conservatives did to the educational system and all, the Liberals are taking a very strong positive step towards positivly altering the course of our young generation.

how many people on welfare own a car? well i can think of two people that i personally know about. Sure they are jalopies but they are still cars.

im not against stopping kids from dropping out. But this is the absolute wrong way to do it.

Make it law to have kids in school until 18 unless a parent signs a form saying he can drop out. End of story.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Make it law to have kids in school until 18 unless a parent signs a form saying he can drop out. End of story.

ever forged your parents signiture?

A form = waste of time.
A signiture = a formality
Parents granting child ability to drop out = strange

Man, rest the arguement, move on, or find a new one.

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 ever forged your parents signiture? A form = waste of time. A signiture = a formality Parents granting child ability to drop out = strange Man, rest the arguement, move on, or find a new one.

im pretty sure the parents would be in close contact with the school in this matter. This is not a case of being sick and off for a day.

Waste of time?

Well if giving someone a choice in how to parent their child is a waste of time, i feel sorry for you.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

I say let them dropout. By the time a kid drops out they know that:

a) It will be incredibly hard to get a good (office) job.
b) You can goto Uni/College later as a mature student.
c) It's really easy to make a living above the poverty line, all you need to do is suck it up and do a job no one else likes doing. (Humbling one's self is the easiest way to succeed in life)

of course if all that fails...
d) There's always welfare. (nothing warms my heart like footing the bill for society's lazy shits)

The country needs garbage men, construction workers, janitors, box-lifters, fast-food managers and the like, and there are plenty of drop-outs willing to do it while all the graduates are out simultaeneously waiting tables AND for a job-opening in the field of work that matches their Uni/College degree.

Leave these kids alone, they ALL dropped out for a reason. Not everyone can be as easily institutionalized as the rest of society, not everyone can motivate themselves to work their asses off for 0 pay, not everyone wants a cozy office-job when they could be lifting garbage for the same pay and skip the whole school fiasco. Despite what you think, MOST drop-outs become contributing factors to our society. Who do you think mops your floors, collects your garbage, builds your streets, transports the items you want to purchase? A large percentage of people who actually DO society's dirty-work are drop-outs, and they're just as useful to society, if not moreso, than a silly graduate with an engineering degree waiting tables at a Kelsey's while they wait for a job-opening in their desired field of work. So leave drop-outs alone, and go on with your busy lives.

I'm a drop-out... how did that affect you? If you live anywhere near me, I may have made you a delicious pizza instead of going to college right away. Otherwise, guess what? It DIDN'T affect you. So leave drop-outs alone.

___________________
Captain Planet is gey.
Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 im pretty sure the parents would be in close contact with the school in this matter. This is not a case of being sick and off for a day. Waste of time? Well if giving someone a choice in how to parent their child is a waste of time, i feel sorry for you.

You are clearly a sucker for punishment.

sorry how is a form, which requires a signiture to get past it; a signiture which is easily FORGED, a viable way to ensure that a child NO LONGER HAS TO ATTEND SCHOOL, forever?

This is not a case of being physically ill, this is being sick of school and never wanting to attend school again.

ANd in that world of unreality that you clearly live in, do those children who have no aspirations in attending school, have this close bond with their parents who apparently support their children in their downward educational spiral. And this bond is further extended to include the childs' highschool administration who, with the child, his parents and this magical form determine that this child needs to leave school.

The world does not work this way, the child that wants to leave, does not want their parents, assuming that they are around, to know or to have any part of it.

PLease dont feel sorry for me...I cant imagine why you would....this law is about making school a priority for children.


funny how you avoid the part about school being the key to ending a cycle of poverty is irrelevant to you.

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 funny how you avoid the part about school being the key to ending a cycle of poverty

ROFL, what hole are YOU living in? School isn't the 'answer' to ending poverty, it just helps (ok, a lot). The #1 reason for people living in poverty is their own foolish choices. For some, that includes dropping out of school, for others it's just that they refuse to do a job that WILL earn them a proper living. I'm a dropout, and I already make more than the poverty line (currently estimated at 15000 a year), it is NOT hard to make a LIVING. 10 bucks an hour and full-time hours will do the trick! The question is, are you willing to spend wisely and make that money work for you? For most people living in poverty, the answer is 'NO'. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they dropped out, and has everything to do with the fact that they're ignorant fools who are offended by advice, critisism, and the fact they might have to actually WORK HARD and SETTLE FOR LESS to earn a living.

I've learned a few things in my life since I left school...

1: People are retarded, no matter how much education they have.
2: it takes WISDOM, not money to live comfortably in this world.
3: ANYONE can earn a proper living, there's ALWAYS a job that pays enough, you just need to willing to do it.

___________________
Captain Planet is gey.
Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Make it law to have kids in school until 18 unless a parent signs a form saying he can drop out. End of story.

Do you know how many parents would actually sign this form? Times have changed....there are ALOT of parents that would let their kids drop out of school so they could work. I saw it happen with a few of my friends in New York and Ontario really isn't any different.

Make it a law that kids CANNOT drop out until they are 18, and if they do it will be treated the same way as a child under 16 drops out.

16 year old kids should not have the privelidge of making the decision of whether or not to go to school. Most don't possess the maturity of making a decision such as that. I can't tell you how many of my classmates dropped out because they wanted to "party" or didn't feel like waking up so early.

Many countries don't let children drive until they're 18, we can't make the decision of choosing the prime-minister until we're 18 so why on earth is a child at 16 allowed to make the choice of whether or not he or she wants to attend school or not?

___________________
-.mK. - DONE UNIVERSITY weeeeeeeeee! says:
RITA MCNEIL CHRISTMAS SPECIAL MON @8, CTV

Last edited by KaiLee on Jun-03-2006 at 03:36

quote:

Originally posted by KaiLee Because there are too many parents that could care less what their kid is doing.

There aren't 'too many' parents that could care less what their kid does... there are 'too many' parents who don't even KNOW what their kid is doing because they spend all their time working instead of parenting (and it's not entirely their fault, it's mainly because working hours are so long here in North America). There ARE parents who don't care about their kids, I'll give you that. But the MAIN problem here is that parents are no longer able to do their job (parenting) because work-hours are too long, and when they finally get home, their kid is at a 'friend's house' until they come home to sleep.

Which is probably why these kids end up at the point that they want to drop-out in the first place. They feel like no one, not even their parents, really care what they do, so why should they? Then they drop out.

We need parenting incentives in place. If parents were able to spend more time with their kids, instead of spending 3 hours a day between work and bed time with them, we would see an increase in graduation rates.

___________________
Captain Planet is gey.
Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam There aren't 'too many' parents that could care less what their kid does... there are 'too many' parents who don't even KNOW what their kid is doing because they spend all their time working instead of parenting (and it's not entirely their fault, it's mainly because working hours are so long here in North America). There ARE parents who don't care about their kids, I'll give you that. But the MAIN problem here is that parents are no longer able to do their job (parenting) because work-hours are too long, and when they finally get home, their kid is at a 'friend's house' until they come home to sleep. Which is probably why these kids end up at the point that they want to drop-out in the first place. They feel like no one, not even their parents, really care what they do, so why should they? Then they drop out. We need parenting incentives in place. If parents were able to spend more time with their kids, instead of spending 3 hours a day between work and bed time with them, we would see an increase in graduation rates.

I agree with you, but I've also had friends who had parents that never asked where they were going, who they were going with, when they would be home. Shouldn't a girl have a curphew at the age of 15? These moms were stay at home moms and never asked their son or daughter where they were going and gave them a time to come home when we would walk out the door. It may have seemed great at the age of 16, but now it seems a bit scary.

There are both parents in this world who don't care and don't know.

Point of the matter is, although some 16 year olds may be more mature than some 20 year olds....the general population of 16 year olds are NOT mature enough to make the decision to stay in school.

___________________
-.mK. - DONE UNIVERSITY weeeeeeeeee! says:
RITA MCNEIL CHRISTMAS SPECIAL MON @8, CTV

quote:

Originally posted by KaiLee I agree with you, but I've also had friends who had parents that never asked where they were going, who they were going with, when they would be home. Shouldn't a girl have a curphew at the age of 15? These moms were stay at home moms and never asked their son or daughter where they were going and gave them a time to come home when we would walk out the door. It may have seemed great at the age of 16, but now it seems a bit scary. There are both parents in this world who don't care and don't know. Point of the matter is, although some 16 year olds may be more mature than some 20 year olds....the general population of 16 year olds are NOT mature enough to make the decision to stay in school.

Like I said, there ARE parents. But at the same time, it's not that those parents don'ta care, it's that they either: Blindly trust their kid, or, don't care. I'd put most of them in the blind-trust family. We've grown up with an entire generation of pussy-parents who have been afraid to put their foot down and put a little control on their kid's life. I think it's a generational thing. Because I don't see MOST of us growing into parents who don't even bother to ask their kid where they're going for the night... we all KNOW what that kid is probably doing, and we'll all be ready to do some investigating, because we've seen what it's like to grow up with what basically ammounts to a parentless generation.

You're right that most 16 year olds aren't mature enough to make a decision like that... but like most, you forget that they can fix those decisions later in life, they can STILL goto college or Uni as a mature student, they can even go back to adult-ed for their high school diploma... people that don't and look for handouts are people that have lost ambition to succeed, and whether they're forced to graduate or not, they're not going to succeed.

___________________
Captain Planet is gey.
Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.