atb - moving melodies (not the UK release)

I've said it before, and I'll tell you the same again:

Mirco de Govia "Chronoscale"

quote:

Originally posted by zoric I've said it before, and I'll tell you the same again: Mirco de Govia "Chronoscale"

Great album, I have a lot of the singles downloaded but haven't bought the album. Maybe I should sometime...I love Micro's music.

Ok, this has gone to far. By now, it is clear that you are an 18-year old arrogant, miserous fuck that never gives up in order to be shown as "clever".This is clearly not the case though. This whole "genre-fighting" thing IS EXTREMELY STUPID and the only reason i'm still carrying it, is because you've used the current "childish"(unfortunatelly) theme in order to make your personal attacks. EDM sub-genres are based in basic patterns and elements and for that reason,it is very hard to distinquish between them. Especially in the beginning of the 90s, genre boundaries were very blurred, especially between, techno, trance and progressive house, three genres which were directly related.Anyways...

The definition of trance according to wikipedia is...


"Trance is a style that employs a 4/4 time signature, complemented by a 4/4 bass drum on its downbeats. Utilizing synthesizers and drum machines, Trance has a BPM of 130-160 beats per minute, somewhat faster than house music. Arpeggios and minor scales are common features."-
This definiton is very close to the one i gave in a previous post. These elements were very common in early trance, progressive house and techno ALIKE. progresssive house was heavily based in arpeggiations and melodic patterns.

quote:

Whatever the hell your point was here, it's wrong.

Since you can't recognise what my point is, how can you tell that i'm wrong?You are a "pure bastard"(like this definition?) aren't you?!?

quote:

No they don't. Only three have a kick on every beat, and they are Lush 3.1, Monday and Halcyon. Monday sounds nothing like trance and you've admitted as much.

quote:

Stop fucking using 4/4 like that. A breaks track is still in 4/4 time. However, that don't make it four on the floor. All the percussion on Brown is set up like a breakbeat, except the kicks on a couple of tracks.

Ok this is getting rediculous.Every track has a clear well pronounced kick-drum to serve as a metronome (except as i said before "impact").Because you are an arrogant asshole and even deny the very basic sensations and perceptions in order to project your irrational crappy arguments, here are the samples. People can judge if these are grounded in breaks or a "four-to-the-floor" as you like to say. Unfortunately i couldn't find a good sample of "planet of the shapes, lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on, but as you said, "lush 3.1" and "halcyon" are clearly based in a well-pronounced 4/4 kick-drum. So...no probs(planet of the shapes remains controversial...)

Lush 3.2
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=701303

(lol this is related to early prodigy rather than "trance" people. I would CLEARLY say it's related to early psy/goa-trance...!)

Impact (the earth is burning)
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=701304

(The only "true" break-beat" tune...This is what people call "breaks"...)


Remind
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...trackId=4727680

In this, ribena addict, "our detective" ,has discovered that THE 4/4 Kick Drum doesn'r exist!What you listen is an illusion. Also the current tune is "directly" related to MBM, because it is a remix of an MBM tune namely "mindstream" and not early psy/goa-trance.the arpeggiating acid-lines and metallic riffs(which are not present in this sample) are "Clear indications of early rave-hardcore"...DOH!!!)
Ok...experiment...

Early meat beat manifesto tune...from their first self-titled album...)
Dogstar man/helter Skelter
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=632790

THE ORIGINAL "mindstream" by meat beat manifesto (which "remind" is a remix)!!!
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=632832

and an early prodigy one...

"Wind it up"
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=740494

AND NOW AN EARLY PSY-TRANCE TUNE...

Juno Reactor-contact
From their album "Transmissions-93"(same year with borwn album).
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=539709(by the way excellent album)

NO COMMENTS...As i said, yes, orbital took remind (a break-beat/big-beat tune) and RAPED(!) it, transforming it in a psy-trance monster!!!Because orbital remixed a tune by another band, doesn't make them musically related to them. James Holden has remixed Britney spears FFS!!!I will insist in the phrase:LOGIC MY ASS.

Walk Now
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=701306

(Another breaks tune!!!stongue: .It's ridiculous...)

Because there are rolling snares and hihats doesn't mean you idiot that the tracks are based in break-beats! If that was the case , than all early techno and trance would be considered as break-beat (or even worse, hardcore) sub-genres!!!Listen to the fantastic classic trance mix(part-1)
(forum: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=353397) to find-out what i'm talking about dumbhead!Listen to the drums going crazy at "21:00", "23:00", "34:00", "38:00", "60:00", 60:07" (by the way, very nice mix...excellent!Thanks for posting this classic gem!))Snares and hi-hats and even the kicks were almost always found at slightly "irregular patterns" back then,(in 90-94) and as a result the rhytmh was sounding a bit "breaky"(that is, not-well pronounced 4/4 as you said). That was not a characteristic aspect of orbital's sound (and to their "relation" to the "prodigy-MBM scene lol which scene was that?!!?)but a regular thing that was done by everyone back then!!!This was even more intense in techno records, detroit and german techno alike.

Orbital have begun in the early rave scene as a "techno-duo" but due to the course of their career, they never stopped experimenting, incorporating new sounds and ideas...In discogs their "lush 3" e.p in most of the times is labelled as "trance" and "trance-techno"
http://www.discogs.com/release/24350, http://www.discogs.com/release/42756
their second album is also labelled as "trance-techno"
http://www.discogs.com/release/59547, http://www.discogs.com/release/419929

"Lush 3.1" appears in a classic trance compilation..."logic trance-2" as a classic trance track alongside other classic trance tracks such as energy-52s "cafe del mar"("Lush" it's a classic prog track that contributed to trance and therefore can be considered as a "trance" classic.http://www.discogs.com/release/32272 and "remind" in a compilation entitled as "trancefusion-2")

As i have stated, prog-house was directly related to trance in a vertical and not horizontal fashion. Early prog was directly influenced by early trance and then, mid-90s prog, had directly influenced later "epic trance".

According to "wikipedia"...
"Progressive house has its origins in Britain in the early 1990s, with the output of the Guerrilla record label and Leftfield's first singles (particularly "Song of Life") and then Mixmag editor Dom Phillips to coin the term. In 1992, what was to be the first superclub, Renaissance threw open its doors in the small mining town of Mansfield, and its DJs - particularly Sasha and the then-unknown John Digweed - were instrumental in pushing the sound in its early days. The music itself consisted of the 4-to-4 beat of house music allied to deeper, dub-influenced basslines and a more melancholic, emotional edge. Often, the ethereal "swirly" textures of early TRANCE could be heard in the mix, and various other elements from across the electronic spectrum."

From all these, it is clear that early orbital are directly and indirectly related to trance. Lush 3.2 and remind are clear indications of early psy/goa IMO and trance and lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on are epic progressive house tunes(which according to wikipedia, prog-house was heavily influenced by early trance, especially the "melodic" aspect)which in turn have contributed to the development of "epic trance".

quote:

Prog house may have influenced prog trance in the 1990s, but Orbital weren't prog house, were they? If Orbital were influenced by Leftfield, Underworld et al, then Orbital were influenced by prog house, but this doesn't make them part of the prog house scene. Just because you've made an unsubstantiated claim that Orbital were linked to prog house (which has changed from trance, your original claim) doesn't mean that any trance movement had anything to do with Orbital

I still consider "brown album" to be a "Trance/progressive/techno" classic.I haven't changed my mind in opposition to what you said. From the very beginning i have supported the notion that there was a "Strong direct and indirect trance presence in brown album" and NOT that brown album was rather clear "trance" and/or progressive. "brown album" is a varied EDM album with lots of ideas, but with heavy "early" trance and prog aspects.But anyways, genre fighting especially when it is carried over these blurred genre boundaries is worthless and at this point, there are no objective criteria that one could use in order to come with a clear-cut objective argument.It is up to peoples perceptions now, and that was the reason that i've posted samples. TAs can judge and see for themeselves. I hope you liked my EPIC post(it will be the last) and to enjoy the various samples and information i give.I love giving samples, that was a good motivation, although the whole argument was still worthless.Thanks for giving me the chance to post samples and information asshole!

Artist Albums:
ones that have been mentioned already really..
Ayla, BT, Chicane, Art of Trance, Hybrid, Man With No Name, Robert Miles, Juno Reactor, Orbital, Prodigy (eh EDM is EDM!)...

Mix Albums:
Gatecrasher (Wet and Global Sound System mostly)
Euphoria Level 3
White Label Euphoria
GU007 Oakenfold
ISOS 1 and 2
Deeper Shades of Hooj

___________________
looped in sequence

• Andain - Promise
  
• Adrian Lux - Can't Sleep
  
• Benjamin Francis Leftwich - See You
  
• Company of Thieves - Even In The Dark
  

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Ok, this has gone to far. By now, it is clear that you are an 18-year old arrogant, miserous fuck that never gives up in order to be shown as "clever".

Yes, and it's clear you'll throw everything and the kitchen sink in as far as insults go, then have the balls to accuse me of employing personal attacks.

quote:

This definiton is very close to the one i gave in a previous post. These elements were very common in early trance, progressive house and techno ALIKE. progresssive house was heavily based in arpeggiations and melodic patterns.

So what you're saying is that a description (taken from a site that doesn't actually have any real authority) that you're using for trance is equally applicable to techno- the genre which Orbital subscribed to back then?

quote:

Since you can't recognise what my point is, how can you tell that i'm wrong?You are a "pure bastard"(like this definition?) aren't you?!?

Because if it was a joke then there was no indication nor any apparent punchline, and if it was a serious point then I utterly smashed it a couple of posts back. Either way it was an irrelevant addition to this thread and the fact that you said "this proves my point" means you obviously intended something serious by it, contrary to what you now claim.

And what the hell is a "pure bastard", precisely?

quote:

(lol this is related to early prodigy rather than "trance" people. I would CLEARLY say it's related to early psy/goa-trance...!)

Okay, let's compare with the Juno Reactor track you linked to. The tempo of the Orbital track is much slower, and the Juno track shows a classic example of the trance beat I'm talking about : the kick, the snare and the percussion are totally regular, where as nothing is on Lush 3.2. They're different rhythms.

quote:

In this, ribena addict, "our detective" ,has discovered that THE 4/4 Kick Drum doesn'r exist!What you listen is an illusion.

Are you so fucking stupid you can't even comprehend my posts? Or are you just deliberately ignoring them? I said quite fucking clearly that Remind changes from a four on the floor to a break. Here's the quote, you dickhead:

quote:

Remind sounded suspicious to me, so I put it on the decks and killed the treble and mid so all you can hear are the kicks and bassline. Guess what? When it gets noisy, the track shifts from a four on the floor to a break.

Or will you deny this because you can't be bothered to look back at my posts?

quote:

Also the current tune is "directly" related to MBM, because it is a remix of an MBM tune namely "mindstream" and not early psy/goa-trance.

Again, a distortion of what I said. The MBM fact merely shows what scene Orbital were part of.

Also, why have you posted a totally irrelevant Prodigy track? Wind it Up is from Experience, 1991. Liam Howlett has stated in countless interviews he disowned that sound which reflected in the total change of sound on MFTJG. Why didn't you post one of The Prodigy tracks I mentioned? Because you're distorting what has been said to bolster your argument?

Also, I came across something that Google churned up, from Ishkur's sample database. It would seem that The Prodigy's "Speedway" would sample an Orbital track. Which one? Why, Lush 3.1 it seems. Alas, I couldn't find a decent sample of Speedway to make my point with.

quote:

Because there are rolling snares and hihats doesn't mean you idiot that the tracks are based in break-beats! If that was the case , than all early techno and trance would be considered as break-beat (or even worse, hardcore) sub-genres!!!Listen to the fantastic classic trance mix(part-1)

Funny how that is not the case on the Juno track you used as a comparison, isn't it? Anyway, I said earlier that the percussion combined with the semi-irregular kick gives the impression of a break.

quote:

This was even more intense in techno records, detroit and german techno alike.

Yes... techno. Which Orbital are. Also, out of a whole mix you link to, you find a few isolated instances of irregular percussive patterns? Sounds like an exception rather than a rule.

quote:

"Lush 3.1" appears in a classic trance compilation..."logic trance-2" as a classic trance track alongside other classic trance tracks such as energy-52s "cafe del mar"("Lush" it's a classic prog track that contributed to trance and therefore can be considered as a "trance" classic.http://www.discogs.com/release/32272

Yeah. The Orb's "Little Fluffy Clouds" and FSOL's "Papua New Guinea" also appear on that mix. Two ambient house records. Because, y'know, it's not impossible for trance mixes to use other genres.

quote:

From all these, it is clear that early orbital are directly and indirectly related to trance. Lush 3.2 and remind are clear indications of early psy/goa IMO and trance and lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on are epic progressive house tunes(which according to wikipedia, prog-house was heavily influenced by early trance, especially the "melodic" aspect)which in turn have contributed to the development of "epic trance".

Yes, and I've dismissed this logic in an earlier post. If Orbital were influenced by prog house, they're a product of the genre, not part of it. We also had a name-that-genre on Halcyon recently, and the common consensus was that it's ambient techno or ambient house rather than "epic prog house".

quote:

Thanks for giving me the chance to post samples and information asshole!

Yes, I like how you grossly distort what I said and then use samples that have nothing to do with what I've said.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

^ Will you two agree to disagree already?

___________________

Ok, i can't help it...people bring your pop-corn back, here comes another epic hollywood-style post!

quote:

So what you're saying is that a description (taken from a site that doesn't actually have any real authority) that you're using for trance is equally applicable to techno- the genre which Orbital subscribed to back then?

No, i said that some elements could be found in all three.

quote:

Because if it was a joke then there was no indication nor any apparent punchline, and if it was a serious point then I utterly smashed it a couple of posts back. Either way it was an irrelevant addition to this thread and the fact that you said "this proves my point" means you obviously intended something serious by it, contrary to what you now claim. And what the hell is a "pure bastard", precisely?

You "smashed" it???Wooowww you are sooo wild. unfortunately you didn't smash anything but air!!!Yes, you were fighting with your own shadow...
A pure bastard is you.If you search at the dictionary for the definition of a "pure bastard", there is a photograph and a clear description of you as the best example of the "pure bastards" category.

quote:

Okay, let's compare with the Juno Reactor track you linked to. The tempo of the Orbital track is much slower, and the Juno track shows a classic example of the trance beat I'm talking about : the kick, the snare and the percussion are totally regular, where as nothing is on Lush 3.2. They're different rhythms.

No they are not different at all!You just compare the rhythm and not the whole track and this is clearly wrong. Would you except to share an identical rhytmh FFS???They are a both 4/4 though don't worry.Other than that they both have acid lines, arpeggiating synths and noisy sounds, they are extremely similar.More similar than orbital's tracks in relation to ANY prodigy and MBM track anyway!!!I have allready posted samples...they speak for themeselves...Also see what i say later on genre-classifications.

quote:

Are you so fucking stupid you can't even comprehend my posts? Or are you just deliberately ignoring them? I said quite fucking clearly that Remind changes from a four on the floor to a break. Here's the quote, you dickhead:

Nothing changes to anything at all.Nothing shifts, nothing weird happens. The only thing that actually occurs is that he kick-drum is turned-down,leaving the snare to provide the clear-cut four-to-the-floor pattern, a snare that was allready there right form the beginning. Just because there are two extra hits between the third and fourth bars doesn't make it a break, it just has a slightly breaky feel which was a common practice back then.As i said the "kk-trance mix part-1"(classic trance mix) contains many tunes which contain such drum-patterns and yes, i'm not talking about exceptional moments but about whole tunes.(Listen the tunes at 22:00,33:00 etc...)A clear-cut break-beat pattern is much more irregular such as in "impact-the earth is burning" (samples are still there).Wikipedia:

"Breakbeat (sometimes breakbeats or breaks) is a term used to describe a collection of sub-genres of electronic music, usually characterized by the use of a non-straighted 4/4 drum pattern (as opposed to the steady beat of house or trance). These rhythms may be characterised by their use of syncopation and polyrhythms, which are prominent in all music of African origin, including much Afro-American music."

quote:

Again, a distortion of what I said. The MBM fact merely shows what scene Orbital were part of.

Which scene was that???You still haven't said.Anyway please read what i say later about what is a "scene" and what is a"genre". From a musical perspective, orbital, prodigy and MBM were totally unrelated anyway.the only thing that had in common were the amazing live-shows.

So, a tune's remix indicates the "Categorisation" of music???Thereofe Holden plays the same music with Britney Spears, Lost Witness with This Mortal Coil (which "Song to the siren is theirs") Oakenfold with U2, many trance acts with rock and pop tunes...(Etc. etc. etc.)A totally biased argument of yours.Orbital throught their course of their careers have collaborated with and remixed almost everyone, be it dance, pop, folk or rock!!!See their biographies to find out for yourself in discogs...
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Orbital
and Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_(band)

quote:

Also, why have you posted a totally irrelevant Prodigy track? Wind it Up is from Experience, 1991. Liam Howlett has stated in countless interviews he disowned that sound which reflected in the total change of sound on MFTJG. Why didn't you post one of The Prodigy tracks I mentioned? Because you're distorting what has been said to bolster your argument?

LOL, so a prodigy's track from MFTJG would make a big difference right?!?

quote:

Also, I came across something that Google churned up, from Ishkur's sample database. It would seem that The Prodigy's "Speedway" would sample an Orbital track. Which one? Why, Lush 3.1 it seems. Alas, I couldn't find a decent sample of Speedway to make my point with.

I found it for you...


The prodigy-speedway.
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF21252-02-02-02.mp3

and...

Lush 3.1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/clip...6178520-3199115

No point...no musical relation...and even if there was a sample it was just another sample that orbital borrowed form someone else...something that was commonly and frequently done over and over again...

quote:

Anyway, I said earlier that the percussion combined with the semi-irregular kick gives the impression of a break.

LOL, so is it an impression of a break or an actual break?!? If it is an "impression" than it is an "illusion", something that actually is not what it appears to be and therefore appears different.You are a very confused young man...

Also,The little "experiment" you performed there doesn't prove anything other than the fact that if someone starts alleviating sounds and layers of sound than the music will actually sound different (and even "shift genres")!!!

quote:

Yeah. The Orb's "Little Fluffy Clouds" and FSOL's "Papua New Guinea" also appear on that mix. Two ambient house records. Because, you know, it's not impossible for trance mixes to use other genres.

WOW, I thought that "papua new guinea" and "Huge Ever Growing Pulsating Brain That Rules From The Center Of The Ultraworld" by the orb to be trance classics.Also, "go" by moby, "no good-start the dance" by prodigy, "cowgirl" by underworld and many others to be "trance classics", and this doesn't come by me, but by DJ magazine's techno page editor Richard Brophy. He has stated once, during a review, that "trance isn't like it used with those great tunes back then..."a view that i also aspouse!.

Anyway, "ambient-house"?!?Nice term, too bad that it doesn't exist!!!You know i can invent thousands of terms...dynamic ambient, ambient-dance, art-trance, sympho-tech,ethereal house,progressive techno,pimp-house,clit-house,...etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Each seperate tune in Leftfield's "leftism" album could also be assigned a genre of their own!!!Clearly this doesn't happen, it's just progressive house.Why?Because there is no need for extra genres.In wikipedia's terms again...progressive house is(again)...

"Progressive house has its origins in Britain in the early 1990s, with the output of the Guerrilla record label and Leftfield's first singles (particularly "Song of Life") and then Mixmag editor Dom Phillips to coin the term. In 1992, what was to be the first superclub, Renaissance threw open its doors in the small mining town of Mansfield, and its DJs - particularly Sasha and the then-unknown John Digweed - were instrumental in pushing the sound in its early days. The music itself consisted of the 4-to-4 beat of house music allied to deeper, dub-influenced basslines and a more melancholic, emotional edge. Often, the ethereal "swirly" textures of early TRANCE(to remind the strong presence of trance) could be heard in the mix, and various other elements from across the electronic spectrum. "Song of Life", for instance, has a trip-hop like down-pitched breakbeat and a high-energy Roland TB-303 riff at various stages."

That's all there is. progressive house(at least in the past) contained these specific elements and as a result, song of life and halcyon+on+on fit the description just fine!!!there is no need for an extra "ambient-pimp-tech-folkpolka" to describe them. IMO early proggy house was nothin more than a mid-tempo housey rhythmh, accompanied with trance and techno elements such as dubby textures and arpeggiating melodies, nothing more, nothing less.


Now , the first mistake you frequently perform. Genres as i have said in the past are not objective but suggestive.No one seems to hear. There are no objective criteria of how genres are defined, or whether a tune would fit a specific genre. There are no genre-classificatory systems such as in the animal kingdom. the very nature of genres which describe "music", something that is very abstract and complex makes genre-categories extemely ill-defined and grounded in uncertainty.
Wikipedia also says:

"Subjectivity
One of the problems with the grouping of music into genres is that it is a subjective process that has a lot to do with the individual's personal understanding and way of listening to music. This is especially true in SUB-GENRES". One example is Led Zeppelin, which could be called heavy metal, hard rock, or blues, depending on one's interpretation. Another difficulty with grouping artists into genres is that, for many, their style of music changes over time.

Some genre labels are quite vague, and may be contrived by critics; post-rock, for example, is a term devised and defined by Simon Reynolds. Another example of this is video game music, which while defined by its media, can also represent its own style, as well as that of any other musical genre."

and

Resistance
"Categorizing music, especially into finer genres or sub genres, can be difficult for newly emerging styles or for pieces of music that incorporate features of multiple genres. Attempts to pigeonhole particular musicians in a single genre are sometimes ill-founded as they may produce music in a variety of genres over time or even within a single piece. Some people feel that the categorization of music into genres is based more on commercial and marketing motives than musical criteria. John Zorn, for example, a musician whose work has covered a wide range of genres, wrote in Arcana: Musicians on Music that genres are tools used to "commodify and commercialize an artist's complex personal vision"."

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_genre

A second mistake that you frequently perform is that because you don't have certain criteria(and nobody has since there are no genre-classification-manuals) to perform you genre-comparisons(and these criteria are suggestive in their very nature), there is a mess of biased logic through-out your posts(which unfortunately i have responded to)of which tune fits a particular genre.

E.g. you compare one element such as the the drum -pattern to support your claims but this is totally biased. One element is simply not enough to lead into a categorisation, one has to explore,analyse and compare more elements at once.Even then, subjectivity and uncertainty would rule again because:

An element may be the "most important element for categorisations"( a drum pattern) for you such as to be the "best characteristic/attribute" (or "Exemplar")of a category/genre but not to be the "main exemplar" (attribute of greatest importane) for me.In simple words a drum pattern is what defines an EDM sub-genre for you but i found the "arpeggiation melodic patterns" to be a better representative of "trance"and therefore to be of higher importance in the categorisation procedure in relation to the drum-patterns. There are no objective criteria of which characteristic/element/attribute is of greater importance!

Therefore, your view is totally egocentric, you just use your own subjective view of what defines(which element) a specific music sub-genre and you take it for granted, using it in an objective way and even getting very harsh about that!



A third serious mistake you frequently perform

You confuse "Scenes" with "genres". According to wikipedia a "Scene" is nothing more than a form of "subculture" such as "punk-rock scene" or "gaming scene".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenes

Whereas a "music-genre" is according to wikipedia:

"A music genre is a category (or genre) of pieces of music that share a certain style or "basic musical language" (van der Merwe 1989, p.3). Music may also be categorized by non-musical criteria such as geographical origin though a single geographical category will often include a wide variety of sub-genres(although this is very stupid IMO...). It can also be said that a music genre (or subgenre) is defined by the techniques, the styles, the context and the themes (content, spirit)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_genre

Scenes and genres are not the one and the same!!!Orbital may had co-existed with prodigy and MBM in the vague early british "rave-scene" but definitelly not in the same "genre".Prodigy and MBM were on "hardcore", "breaks", "big-beats" whereas orbital on "techno", "progressive", "ambient" and yes "trance" something clearly evident in the samples i have posted!!!

Thanks for attending.Hope you liked my post.ciao!

I could have made a lengthy post detailing my exact reasoning behind assertions to dispose of your attempts to be intellectual (which amount to copying and pasting from Wikipedia). I could have rectified your twists of my words to fit your own reasoning. I could have reminded you of the course of this debate which lead to failings in your replies. I could have put up your awful ad hominem diversions. However...

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN WOW, I thought that "papua new guinea" and "Huge Ever Growing Pulsating Brain That Rules From The Center Of The Ultraworld" by the orb to be trance classics.Also, "go" by moby, "no good-start the dance" by prodigy, "cowgirl" by underworld and many others to be "trance classics", and this doesn't come by me, but by DJ magazine's techno page editor Richard Brophy. He has stated once, during a review, that "trance isn't like it used with those great tunes back then..."a view that i also aspouse!. Anyway, "ambient-house"?!?Nice term, too bad that it doesn't exist!!!You know i can invent thousands of terms...dynamic ambient, ambient-dance, art-trance, sympho-tech,ethereal house,progressive techno,pimp-house,clit-house,...etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

And here's exactly where I gave up any lingering will to argue with such a clown. You think Papua New Guinea, any of the Ultraworld album, Go, No Good and Cowgirl to be trance?

I rest my case, your honour.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Last edited by SYSTEM-J on Jul-15-2006 at 15:36

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Great album, one of my all time favorites but I forgot to put it in my original list...I added it, thanks

I don't know. ESCM in my opinion is full of great songs, but as albums go it just doesn't flow. BT's song choices just didn't mesh enough to give that CD an overall feel or dominant emotion. Like puzzle pieces that didn't fit. BT is brilliant, but makes his cds like me when I'm burning a quick mixtape for a car ride or something.

quote:

I could have made a lengthy post detailing my exact reasoning behind assertions to dispose of your attempts to be intellectual (which amount to copying and pasting from Wikipedia). I could have rectified your twists of my words to fit your own reasoning. I could have reminded you of the course of this debate which lead to failings in your replies. I could have put up your awful ad hominem diversions. However...

Yes you SHOULD do that but unfortunately there would be nothing to be said since i'am not having a philosophical conversation here, i'm just posting facts from wikipedia and psychological theories on categorisation kid!This is about facts and you have misinterpreted a lot of them. Where can i start from...

1) That collaborations between people, sample-borrowing and remixes are indications that these artists belong in the same "Scene" (or genre?)

2) A failure to understand the concept of genre subjectivity?

3) Treating your own subjective perceptions as objective and getting harsh about it?(kick-drum is like this then it is X)


4)A confusion between "scenes" and "genres" and theorising them as one and the same?(Orbital's sound as closer to prodigy not because they share any musical characteristics but because they belong to the same british vague rave/techno scene.)

it's funny how you get mad about it and instead of responding with something meaningfull, you state that i am a "clown" because i "think" papua and "ultraworld" are trance. Rofl.Anyway that's not what i said but DJ mags techno page editor Richard Brophy idiot, not me. I just agree with him.(unfortunately i don't have adocument)!!!


Rest in Peace.