quote:

Originally posted by Zild I agree too. I only use Ableton for studio mixes. At gigs I use Serato or CDJs whatever is more convenient.

What features did Serato Scratch offer that convinced you to purchase it over Final Scratch? I was wondering this because my friend Kyle chose Serato over Final as well.

I used FS2 a few times and I don't really like the feel. I was saying things to myself like "Goddamn FS!" which is similar to what I say when using cheap CD decks. Once you cue the track it works fine but the cue feels a little loose. It is hard to explain. And I'm much more of a Rane fanboy that I well ever be for Stanton. And Serato is an awesome company everyone respects their stuff like the pitch n' time software.

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Ableton intrigues me but i don't think it's something i really have much interest in learning.

i currently use MixMeister Pro, and although it's a simple yet great little program for putting together some solid mixes, i just don't like the idea of investing even more time into using software to put mixes together.

personally i think you can do some really amazing things with Ableton, but i'd rather spend my time learning how to do really amazing things with decks and a mixer. maybe once i reach a point where i feel my creativity is being held back by using only decks and a mixer, then maybe i'd consider adding Ableton to the setup. until then, i see no reason for it.

i'm also one of those people who have to sit in front of a computer for 8 or 9 hours a day.

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See you're just going along with the common misconception that people have about Ableton. It is just as easy to use as Mixmeister. I think people who use Ableton just try to make it seem difficult, or complicated, or time consuming but it isn't.

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quote:

Originally posted by Zild See you're just going along with the common misconception that people have about Ableton. It is just as easy to use as Mixmeister. I think people who use Ableton just try to make it seem difficult, or complicated, or time consuming but it isn't.

i've tried using Ableton, and i couldn't figure it out. my short patience got the best of me and i just gave up on it. MixMeister on the other hand, was just super-easy for me to figure out.

i think of Ableton the same way i think of Flash (i'm a graphic designer)... i know that if i sat down and took the time to really learn how to use it, i'd probably love it and be able to create some really sweet stuff.

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quote:

Originally posted by DamienR8 Nope, they are based on personal preferences my little friend. Can you comprehend that or are you going to continue bitching and moaning?

Well, see normally I wouldnt mind, you having your opinion, except when you say shit like this:

quote:

Prepping loops, creating samples from misc tracks, loading hundreds of tracks into the library. Ect Ect. Sorry im not THE FLASH like you are.

I warped 10 tracks in 15 minutes...looped appropriate parts of tracks I wanted to play and have them end in a loop, looped the accapellas/samples I wanted to use, and threw them all on my ableton screen. Then I mixed them...the entire operation took about an hour and 30 minutes (counting 77 minutes of live mixing)


What library do you load the tracks in...that takes so long? I have folders, and I drag the track and drop it in. Simple as that. The fact that you can audition the next track while going through folders makes it loads easier to find what you want to play next, you can't "hear" a CD before its in the CDJ, same goes for records.

quote:

I really don't think laptops are fool proof as well when subjected to harsh vibrations, it can crash/stutter, etc.

^^you still didnt answer my question. Are CDJs/Turntables/Mixers less prone to crashes/stutters? I've seen CDJ's fuck up tons of times...and watched Lee Burridge's vinyl's skip while he was tagteaming with Sasha and his mac.

I've never heard ableton stutter. And since I've been using it I've only managed to crash it twice. (This is on a PC btw)


I don't mind you not liking ableton, there are alot of things that make it very un-dj friendly, especially if you do a PVD and just use the stupid trackpad on your laptop as a controller

I just have to disagree with your reasons, or can you come up with better ones? Like one of mine is, lack of good ways to interface with Ableton in a live environment (club/party). Aka no good controllers. There is really nothing out there at the moment that lets you take full control of ableton via a good interface. I think Sasha has the best DJ controller, of everything I've seen...but he built it so it makes sense.

As for the spontaneous aspect...trust me...with a good controller and a good setup...Ableton is the most spontaneous DJ'ing platform on the planet. Want to throw an accapella over that? sure! Loop the last 4 bars of that and let them play with the incoming track abit longer? Do it.

I hate to sound like I'm selling Ableton, but I really think it is the future of DJing, and it provides a completely new approach to it. It lets you concentrate more on where you are going in the mix, rather than where you are. And instead of spending 30 seconds or whatever beatmatching the next track, you can spend those 30 seconds figuring out exactly how you want the mix to sound...

^^ all said I do love my CDJs and will be playing out with them for quite some time untill I find good controllers out there.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Yep, i used vinyl for 10 years now I've moved on to Ableton and it is the most stable software ever!

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quote:

Originally posted by Clovis86 Well, see normally I wouldnt mind, you having your opinion, except when you say shit like this: I warped 10 tracks in 15 minutes...looped appropriate parts of tracks I wanted to play and have them end in a loop, looped the accapellas/samples I wanted to use, and threw them all on my ableton screen. Then I mixed them...the entire operation took about an hour and 30 minutes (counting 77 minutes of live mixing)

I find the aspect of sampling, and mixing highly boring on a PC. I like the hands on feel of vinyl, knobs, faders, etc. I like ripping a sample from a track in reatime, looping it and having it continue for the entirety of the next song with my Electribe. I do not find it that fun having it done beforehand in Ableton and then mixing everything in afterwards. It just does not seem to satisfying to me, its a Personal Preference.

quote:

What library do you load the tracks in...that takes so long? I have folders, and I drag the track and drop it in. Simple as that. The fact that you can audition the next track while going through folders makes it loads easier to find what you want to play next, you can't "hear" a CD before its in the CDJ, same goes for records.

It was my fault on this one, I was loading all the tracks into random libraries and accessing them was a pain in the ass. I actually had so my duplicates of songs in different folders that when I auditioned tracks, half the time, the same track ended up in my playlist. My mistake.

quote:

^^you still didnt answer my question. Are CDJs/Turntables/Mixers less prone to crashes/stutters? I've seen CDJ's fuck up tons of times...and watched Lee Burridge's vinyl's skip while he was tagteaming with Sasha and his mac. I've never heard ableton stutter. And since I've been using it I've only managed to crash it twice. (This is on a PC btw)

I have not had a single crash or stutter on my CDJ since I purchased it 9 months ago. Ableton has crashed too many times on my windows laptop. It is most likely due to some hardware/software compatibility issues. Therefore based on these experiences, I rather use my Mixer and CDJ/s TT's. (Yes this may seem like a "stupid" reason to you, because it seems my dislike for ableton does not fall into the realm of its features, finctions, etc. However, for me its a very important issue). I know when I fuck up with those, it is because of some external interference (Person, potato chips, beer, sime fool's hand). I can't image playing at my friend's party and having a blue screen of death ruin my half completed set (true story, I apologized to my buddy, and jumped on his Empath and CDJ 1000's)

quote:

I don't mind you not liking ableton, there are alot of things that make it very un-dj friendly, especially if you do a PVD and just use the stupid trackpad on your laptop as a controller I just have to disagree with your reasons, or can you come up with better ones? Like one of mine is, lack of good ways to interface with Ableton in a live environment (club/party). Aka no good controllers. There is really nothing out there at the moment that lets you take full control of ableton via a good interface. I think Sasha has the best DJ controller, of everything I've seen...but he built it so it makes sense. As for the spontaneous aspect...trust me...with a good controller and a good setup...Ableton is the most spontaneous DJ'ing platform on the planet. Want to throw an accapella over that? sure! Loop the last 4 bars of that and let them play with the incoming track abit longer? Do it.

True, but I must emphasize that I like the feel of operating the knobs, switches and faders on a sampler as opposed to clicking on a mouse. A personal preference that has nothing to do with a platform's creative potential.

quote:

I hate to sound like I'm selling Ableton, but I really think it is the future of DJing, and it provides a completely new approach to it. It lets you concentrate more on where you are going in the mix, rather than where you are. And instead of spending 30 seconds or whatever beatmatching the next track, you can spend those 30 seconds figuring out exactly how you want the mix to sound... ^^ all said I do love my CDJs and will be playing out with them for quite some time untill I find good controllers out there.

I am an advocate of technology, especially in the realm of dance production / remixing tools. Anything that can add or heighten creativity, I sincerely appreciate. Ableton Live is just one of those things I appreciate but don't want to jump into just yet. My experiences with ableton were not that great and because of that, I do not utilize ableton live in most of my mixing sessions anymore.

One must realize that people may not adapt to new technology as quickly as others. I was very apprehensive about making ableton live a part of my mixing platform even though I heard ranting and raving about its creative potential. After my experiences, I decided for now to stick with my TT'sCDJ/Mixer\Sampler combination and maximize my creativity with those tools before I venture out onto the Ableton Live platform. Right now, Ableton live is not for me, however I can definitely see myself using it in the future.


So sorry about the harsh words Clovis, It was certainly due to the lack of communication. I do agree with you in regards to a decent controller. My friend purchased one of those behringer midi controllers, BAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHAH. What I really hate are those DJ Fanboys that jump on you everytime you disagree on anything to do with their favorite DJ. My friend Karl SWEARS by Ableton, and why? Not because of its creative potential, but because Sasha is using it and since Sasha is using it, you have to like it/ use it, period. I have nothing to say to that guy...

So in all, my opinion about Ableton is based on my personal experiences with it. While these experiences may not be the best, I certainly think they are VERY GOOD reasons for me to push away ableton for now. I do certainly agree with you on the "controller" issue because if a company can put some form and function into ableton in the way of a customizable controller (that can also interface with turntables, samples, cdj's etc.) I can certainly see myself incorporating it into my mixing session.


This was actually a good argument Clovis because it didnt turn into a "YOu are motherfucking GAY ass, go to HELLL/....POWNED bitch" type of scenario.

quote:

Originally posted by lücid Ableton intrigues me but i don't think it's something i really have much interest in learning. i currently use MixMeister Pro, and although it's a simple yet great little program for putting together some solid mixes, i just don't like the idea of investing even more time into using software to put mixes together. personally i think you can do some really amazing things with Ableton, but i'd rather spend my time learning how to do really amazing things with decks and a mixer. maybe once i reach a point where i feel my creativity is being held back by using only decks and a mixer, then maybe i'd consider adding Ableton to the setup. until then, i see no reason for it. i'm also one of those people who have to sit in front of a computer for 8 or 9 hours a day.

absolutely!

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quote:

Originally posted by DamienR8 I find the aspect of sampling, and mixing highly boring on a PC. I like the hands on feel of vinyl, knobs, faders, etc. I like ripping a sample from a track in reatime, looping it and having it continue for the entirety of the next song with my Electribe. I do not find it that fun having it done beforehand in Ableton and then mixing everything in afterwards. It just does not seem to satisfying to me, its a Personal Preference. It was my fault on this one, I was loading all the tracks into random libraries and accessing them was a pain in the ass. I actually had so my duplicates of songs in different folders that when I auditioned tracks, half the time, the same track ended up in my playlist. My mistake. I have not had a single crash or stutter on my CDJ since I purchased it 9 months ago. Ableton has crashed too many times on my windows laptop. It is most likely due to some hardware/software compatibility issues. Therefore based on these experiences, I rather use my Mixer and CDJ/s TT's. (Yes this may seem like a "stupid" reason to you, because it seems my dislike for ableton does not fall into the realm of its features, finctions, etc. However, for me its a very important issue). I know when I fuck up with those, it is because of some external interference (Person, potato chips, beer, sime fool's hand). I can't image playing at my friend's party and having a blue screen of death ruin my half completed set (true story, I apologized to my buddy, and jumped on his Empath and CDJ 1000's) True, but I must emphasize that I like the feel of operating the knobs, switches and faders on a sampler as opposed to clicking on a mouse. A personal preference that has nothing to do with a platform's creative potential. I am an advocate of technology, especially in the realm of dance production / remixing tools. Anything that can add or heighten creativity, I sincerely appreciate. Ableton Live is just one of those things I appreciate but don't want to jump into just yet. My experiences with ableton were not that great and because of that, I do not utilize ableton live in most of my mixing sessions anymore. One must realize that people may not adapt to new technology as quickly as others. I was very apprehensive about making ableton live a part of my mixing platform even though I heard ranting and raving about its creative potential. After my experiences, I decided for now to stick with my TT'sCDJ/Mixer\Sampler combination and maximize my creativity with those tools before I venture out onto the Ableton Live platform. Right now, Ableton live is not for me, however I can definitely see myself using it in the future. So sorry about the harsh words Clovis, It was certainly due to the lack of communication. I do agree with you in regards to a decent controller. My friend purchased one of those behringer midi controllers, BAHAHAHHHAHAHAAHAH. What I really hate are those DJ Fanboys that jump on you everytime you disagree on anything to do with their favorite DJ. My friend Karl SWEARS by Ableton, and why? Not because of its creative potential, but because Sasha is using it and since Sasha is using it, you have to like it/ use it, period. I have nothing to say to that guy... So in all, my opinion about Ableton is based on my personal experiences with it. While these experiences may not be the best, I certainly think they are VERY GOOD reasons for me to push away ableton for now. I do certainly agree with you on the "controller" issue because if a company can put some form and function into ableton in the way of a customizable controller (that can also interface with turntables, samples, cdj's etc.) I can certainly see myself incorporating it into my mixing session. This was actually a good argument Clovis because it didnt turn into a "YOu are motherfucking GAY ass, go to HELLL/....POWNED bitch" type of scenario.

Yeah sometimes stuff gets lost in translation on forums...cheers.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

I've been usin' it since Christmas and I'll never go back. It's so much more fun, as theres a crap load of stuff you can do with Live that you can't do with decks. First of all, your transitions are guessed, since you can actually see ahead of time when the track's elements cut out/come in. Second, the effects that you can add (especially with vsts) are sick! It doesn't hurt that now i can compress my mixes without some crazy box that costs $1000000000.

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