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Originally posted by Q5echo if you would just read the Chain of Command i just posted you would understand that Shinseki, Zinni (who was nowhere f**king near the AOR in 2003) and the other four Generals were far from being the final authority or opinion on troop levels prior to Mar03.

The four battlefield commanders were in the heart of the AOR to provide insight as to what was being done wrong after the war started. Shinseski and Zinni were some of most senior of army officials such that they are tasked to provide strategic military advise to civilians such as Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz before the war started. That's their jobs. Of course they're not battlefield commanders, I pointed out that fact myself. A fact that you attempted to discredit but have yet to provide any evidence that I misspoke when I said that the JCS don't have operational command of their respective services. They're strategic not tactical strategists.

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Wolfowitz didn't just go off all willy nilly on his own recomendations to Congress or the President. he had help. plenty of it. from many players. not just Shinseki. i'm not taking anything away from his role in this but you guys just won't stop holding Shinseki up like he's the f**kin Messiah of combat operations. i think mainly, because thats all you guys have.

Well let's forget altogether the willing ignorance this administration has demonstrated in heeding sound intelligence if it departs from their preconceived notions (such as WMDs for one). So Wolfowitz heeded the advice from all players involved (like the Iraqi National Congress) and Shinseki just sat at his desk and formulated his opinion without taking any input from anyone?? Give me a freaking break, you don't think Shinseki talked to top military commanders to forumulate his strategy? This guy rised up the ranks of the Army to become the JCS and he's a freaking idiot? Are you saying that these are the type of morons the army cultivates to the most preeminent army position?? And don't fucking pidgeon hole me into the arguments of others as you keep trying to do ... I don't hold Shinseki up like he's the "fucking Messiah of combat operations" if you had bothered to read my post that you keep trying to dispute, yet keep reaffirming when you respond to it, the JCS do not have operational command of their service branches. They are forbidden to.

No when I want to talk about operational SNAFUs committed by this administration after the war started I can simply refer to the Divisonal commanders (who ARE in the heart of the fucking AOR in 2003) who have spoken up against this administration. But who gives a fuck about a divisional commander ... they're only in command of 10,000-20,000 troops (10%-20% of the total fighting forces in the region) so wtf do they know? Or conversely I can bring up Bremer and/or Powell who both said there weren't enough troops, or I can simply reference the facts on the ground. Widespread looting and lawlessness after the invasion over the course of several months. Right, the entire region was destabilizing, Al-Qaeda was taking advantage of the chaos and amassing in record numbers, and yet this administration is doing everything right .

We have failed in Anbar province yet this administration escapes blame! So WHO is responsible? Are you telling me nobody is accountable for failure?

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Retro ...