quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 left wingers need to learn economics in general

I'd rather trim the fat now.
Sure, deal with the infastructure to keep it running with a few needed projects here and there but use the excess $$ to keep the black finance cloud away before all your left with is that AND no infastructure...

[edit]
Not entirely sure I worded that right...
Left with nothing BUT debt. payments with no money to do to infastructure and whatever else is needed.
There that's better

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I think you need to learn about compound interest...

I think you need to learn to shut the fuck up sometimes

quote:

left wingers need to learn economics in general

I actually voted for the conservatives


you guys have absolutely nothing to add anymore.


another cut i learned about today, 6 millions from the musueums across the country... yes more BS fat spendings

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quote:

Originally posted by Spam The Canadian Bar Association? Like, the lawyers? Of COURSE they're going to be against this move. It will result in less work for them, which means less money.

you're ignoring or evading the point he's making...

money aside (and no lawyer is going to suddenly starve because of this program being cancelled) don't you think the Can. Bar. Assoc. VP is qualified to say who has actually used the program?

Besides, if you're hypothesizing on bias, wouldn't Harper have just as a biased a position as the VP? In scrapping the program, he's saving his gov't money, making it more difficult for people to challenge his gov't and pleasing his right-wing supporters who (incorrectly) think that it just benefits "liberals".

you could be right about his bias...but that doesn't detract from, or insubstantiate, the point he's making.

what I would like to see is some cuts in the federal sector in Ottawa, those hordes of public servants working 20% of their capacity gaining fat salaries...

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quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Not to mention that they dont deny that a lot of SIGs use the money. Part of the cut was a $5 million cut to the "status of women". Women make up 51% of the population. Some minority! Im sure if there are legit womens causes out there, someone within that 51% can find a way to privately bankroll that fight. And if not then its probably not even worth it. What this does is put a lot of people feeding on the government trough out of a free ride, and allows money to spent more on programs that we all need.

Right. so if some big lobby group doesn't get on board, it's "probably not worth it".

nice attitude.

btw...this is about the cut to the CCP program, not the cut to women's programs that were previously announced. two issues.

the CCP program is 5.6 million over TWO years...it's hardly going to prevent the gov't, who has a massive surplus, from funding other programs.

but fuck those seniors fighting for EI benefits...let them help themselves! nice

btw...keep in mind that if the gov't wouldn't have denied whatever is being fought for in the first place, there wouldn't be a CCP funded case at all, would there?

quote:

Originally posted by malek what I would like to see is some cuts in the federal sector in Ottawa, those hordes of public servants working 20% of their capacity gaining fat salaries...

Who'd argue with that?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT you're ignoring or evading the point he's making... money aside (and no lawyer is going to suddenly starve because of this program being cancelled) don't you think the Can. Bar. Assoc. VP is qualified to say who has actually used the program? Besides, if you're hypothesizing on bias, wouldn't Harper have just as a biased a position as the VP? In scrapping the program, he's saving his gov't money, making it more difficult for people to challenge his gov't and pleasing his right-wing supporters who (incorrectly) think that it just benefits "liberals". you could be right about his bias...but that doesn't detract from, or insubstantiate, the point he's making.

I'm not completely ignoring his point. But that doesn't change the fact that his opinion will be biased and one-sided, which I don't feel leads to wise advice or opinion. I don't feel that the government should be funding, with our tax dollars, a program that allows people to sue the government, for MORE of our tax dollars. I have no problem with them bringing their cases to the court. I do have a problem with the fact that my money is being used to fund the case. These people can raise the money the same way OTHER people, not entitled to the CCP monies, are forced to.

I especially find the program suspect since the program picks and chooses what type of cases to fund. If a group feels that a right is being ignored (I used that example of the anti-abortionists case against the pro-abortionists case as an example, because the article did) the program was designed to take care of it, wasn't it? Either fund both sides, or better yet, don't fund either.

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For Spam and Jayx

I think something that's being missed here, is the fact that the CCP actually saves the government money. Let me break it down:

If a group uses their own means to fight the government on a charter issue, the government knows that if they stall long enough, ask for continuances, request reports, royal commissions, etc. etc. etc., they can run ANY organization out of money. It's simply a matter of time. Now in that time, the lawyers (on both sides) are still getting paid, along with the research staff (I was one of them), judges and administrators.

With the CCP footing the bill, the government loses the incentive to stall. Let's face it, as long as they're footing the bill, stalling means losing your own money. Current research on the matter indicates that Charter cases get to court 50% faster with the CCP than through private litigation. That's 50% less money spent on government challenges.

The simple fact is, conservative groups are tired of not being able to tap into the CCP. Why can't they tap in? As I explained in my previous post, they're not challenging anything in the charter. The CCP is strictly for Charter test cases. It's a useful public service because it is a means to tweak legislation and define less than clear provisions in the Charter. In theory, there should be no need to fund groups who uphold current Charter definitions because no action is required to uphold the status quo.

The reality, is that defending Charter definitions requires as much research and administration as challenging them. Even on the Liberal side of the fence, I know that the CCP does need change, and should fund opposing groups at least to some extent.

One final point I'd like to make, is that most of the groups who slam the CCP tend to cry poor more often than challenge lobby groups. Darryl Reid from Focus on the Family whined about this to the Commons justice committee only six months ago. It's total nonsense when you consider that this organization receives a huge amount of money from its parent organization in the US.

The issue isn't about whether organizations have the money to raise challenges, it's about preventing partisan governments from running organizations out of money so that they don't have to do anything.