common guys nothing will break technics supremacy. do you really think that jeff mills will play his records on a table which looks like a toy? wich have a built-in bpm counter? let me laugh. i am always happy to see new models turntables models, but this one is not going to replace our techs. and as djtj and skywarp said, a high starting torque is absolutely useless. and now about the +/-50% pitch... damn... are you mixing 80 bpm chillout to 170 bpm drum'n'bass ?

No offense, but it's pretty short-sighted to think that Techs will always be the best eq out there. it's like people in the 60s thinking that 8 track would be the best, then in the 70s that audio cassette would be the best, then in the 80s that cd would be the best and in the late 90s that md would be the best. Technology evolves. Period. There will come a time pretty soon that hardware manufacturers will only make cd based or mp3 based hardware. Turntables and vinyl have been excellent during the past several decades...even century. Much better technology has come out and all of this technology is digital.

You can argue to no end that vinyl is better than cd/digital audio, but play your vinyl 1000 times then play your cd 1000 times and listen to which one sounds better. Digital audio will and HAS proved that it is better than vinyl. The ONLY technical advantage that vinyl has over cd currently is dynamic range (the difference between the loudest and softest volume levels) and even this is greatly reduced after spinning the record a dozen times... A cd may not have the dynamic range that a record does, but there are many new advances in compression eq that is pushing the limits much closer.

In short, techs will not reign supreme. They will loose either to other turntables who can outperform and out look the techs, or they will loose to digital media...

CDs don't sound better than vinyl. You are confusing a clean sound with a good sound. That barely perceptible background hiss that you get with vinyl actually makes the music sound better. Vinyl is also analogue, so sounds fuller imo.

Dynamic range is also hugely, hugely important in a club, and can't be dismissed.

CDs have many advantages (not least that you can burn them yourself ), but still don't sound as good. One day something will, but it's not here yet.


Btw, am I the only one that suspects we have some Numark employees on this thread

Technics 1210 MK5

quote:

Originally posted by Arty Btw, am I the only one that suspects we have some Numark employees on this thread

We could possibly have 2 or 3 Numark employees, but I see about 30 possible Technics employees posting on this thread

But technics probably don't need as many employees as Numark because they don't break nearly as much

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quote:

Originally posted by Arty CDs don't sound better than vinyl. You are confusing a clean sound with a good sound. That barely perceptible background hiss that you get with vinyl actually makes the music sound better. Vinyl is also analogue, so sounds fuller imo. Dynamic range is also hugely, hugely important in a club, and can't be dismissed. CDs have many advantages (not least that you can burn them yourself ), but still don't sound as good. One day something will, but it's not here yet. Btw, am I the only one that suspects we have some Numark employees on this thread

Well, obviously you didn't read my post very thoroughly. I never said that dynamic range wasn't important--in fact it IS very important, you are correct. And any advantage that vinyl has over cd in this area is wiped out after you play your vinyl several times.

It makes me laugh that people think that just because the original source is analog that somehow that makes it better. Guess what, when the track was originally recorded, they didn't burn it straight to vinyl, they recorded it onto a DAT most likely. DAT stands for DIGITAL audio tape. *blink* Need I repeat?

As far as confusing a good sound with a clean sound, I think that you're confusing a fact with a wrong perception. The fact is, if you make your own track and use good compression hardware (check this out: http://www.fmraudio.com/ go to the RNC1773 for an affordable compressor that offers increadibly transparent compression) then you will still retain a lot of the dynamic range that the original recording had. If you do a bad job...then you get my picture. Is there still room for advancement in the cd market? Yes. Have the capabilities of vinyl maxed out? Probably. I have no clue why you think that hissing makes the music sound better! If this is true, then why don't you hear hissing recorded onto the original source itself? And why do they have so many programs that remove hissing and other vinyl-produced sounds?

How can you possible argue that a media that will retain the original source 100% or not at all is in any way better than something that can degade every time you play it, every time you take it into a smokey club and warps under its own weight by just letting it sit there because?

I actually like vinyl a LOT, but there is no advantage in the long run over digital media. There are many arguements over just quality alone, but think about how portable, reproducable, cheap and accesible cds are. Now think about how heavy and bulky, expensive to buy and even more expensive to reproduce records are. While you have your 25-50 records that you brought with you to the club, I've got my 1000 cds in less space and wieght organized into as many different generes, sets or moods as I see fit.

Why make this argument?
Technics are the standard, are great and still reign supreme for around 20 years. However to go along with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I think someone summed it up the best by saying something along the lines that if the deck can last, and is better spec-wise, what makes techs any better at all? That's all it depends on now, durability. Even the price is cheaper. If after a few years the TTX1 is still durable, don't you think standards will be broken? Why purchase something more expensive, not as powerful and just as durable for more money? If Technics doesn't innovate they're not going to reign supreme. Even if it does take years to prove that they aren't king. In any field standards won't stay the same forever. Just look at IBM.
However... you really can't go too far wrong IMO with decks this caliber.
A good thing to add would be "Why take the chance now?" Which seems to be what most are doing. It's got ways to go before techs lose their crown, even if now it's starting to wear a little thin.

ChavezHype, TTx's are the same price as MK3's now.

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My Technics remind me of a favorite old trance track, "You put me in heaven with your touch.."

I lurv them to pieces, though the new Numarks are pretty sharp looking. The way I look at it though, the more features you have, the more there is to break.

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DJ Kibon - August 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Veldrid ChavezHype, TTx's are the same price as MK3's now.

You sure? From what I've seen, they're about $100 less per pair than the tech 12s from where I've seen them being sold.