quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 Quite sure everyone knows that, but within months of their reign in Ottawa it was actually the CONSERVATIVES that thought it wise to extend Canada's stay till at least 2009. "stay the course" I guess and How'd that logic work for the americans?

You really think that would have changed after two Liberals leaders have already, "Stayed the Course"?

Don't bother trying to confused the argument by bringing something else into it; we're not talking about Americans and Iraq is not Afghanistan so lets not try and rationalize with befuddlement.

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

I just cant get over how people cant see how disrespectful it is to make that sort of comment on remeberence day. However, I guess it's thanks to the soldiers that fought back then and who are fighting today that people are free to make such comments.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I just cant get over how people cant see how disrespectful it is to make that sort of comment on remeberence day. However, I guess it's thanks to the soldiers that fought back then and who are fighting today that people are free to make such comments.

...and there in lies the hypocrisy...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r You really think that would have changed after two Liberals leaders have already, "Stayed the Course"? Don't bother trying to confused the argument by bringing something else into it; we're not talking about Americans and Iraq is not Afghanistan so lets not try and rationalize with befuddlement.

yes, it would have changed. Just as it should have changed.

IF you are unable to absorb a relevant example of republican/conservative power base failing in their similar descion to "stay the course" then too bad. We should learn from american failures, not attempt to recreat them.

bottomline: conservatives have signed on to the Afghan mission till at least 2009

And what would you like to do? Let bin laden keep his playground?

Yes iraq is a sham but afghanistan is not. Dont confuse the two.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by 7-4-7 We should learn from american failures, not attempt to recreat them.

agreed
and bill clintons lack of willingness to 'stay the course' in somalia led bin laden to believe that america and her armies were a 'paper tiger' and emboldened him to make further more vicious attacks on the usa leading up to the 9/11 attacks. might i remind you that on 9/11 the americans werent in afghanistan nor were they in iraq.

in the words of usama bin laden - "...our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled, and America had to stop all its bragging and all that noise it was making in the press after the Gulf War in which it destroyed the infrastructure and the milk and dairy industry that was vital for the infants and the children and the civilians and blew up dams which were necessary for the crops people grew to feed their families. Proud of this destruction, America assumed the titles of world leader and master of the new world order. After a few blows, it forgot all about those titles and rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace, dragging the bodies of its soldiers."

we should learn from americas mistakes of the 1990s and stay the course! maybe the current policy in iraq is not 100% correct and can use some tweaking; it probably could but leaving the region to let it dissolve into an area rife with warlords and gangs is not the solution either. now i admit that 3,000 americans soldiers dying in the ensuing years since 9/11 is a terrible terrible thing and i hope and pray that not another hair is harmed on any western soldiers body be he/she canadian or american or otherwise, however, this is a war that needs to be fought and better we fight it there than here at home (in canada or america)

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*** The Toronto TranceAddict formerly known as abort416 ***

yes bin laden's words are words to live by...

WTF is wrong with us?

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Two points.

First of all, people need to differentiate the personal politics of Bob Rae from the party politics of the NDP. Bob Rae, even when premier of Ontario, was significantly more right wing than the NDP rank and file. Rae and family have been card carrying members of the federal liberals for 35-40 years. That he's running for leadership, is not that big an idealogical leap. Many of the policies that came out of the Rae years from Ontario came out of the NDP policy convention held shortly before the election. Rae didn't have full control of what policy comes down the pipeline. In fact, no leader of any party does.

Second, coming from a military family (brother currently in Air Force, father, uncles and grandfather all enlisted, lived on bases until I was 15), one thing you learn is to differentiate soldiers from leadership and policy. I don't agree with the war in Iraq and a clearer objective in Afghanistan is also necessary. Disagreeing with the politics of a war IS NOT disrespecting the soldiers. In a military family, we respect and remember everyday, not just the lip service paid on November 11 in this country.

While we respect our soldiers, we should also remember why they are there and not sugarcoat political realities. World War I and II were not about protecting our freedoms. If the Nazis had won in Europe, we still wouldn't be speaking German and our freedoms and lifestyle wouldn't be any different. This reasoning is simply nationalistic rhetoric to sell the war to the masses. The simple reality is that we were bailing out our major economic partner because it would be beneficial to our economic interests during and after the war. No more, no less.