Boy do you know how to generalize decades of government
spending with "Republicans spent more than democrats".

Anyway, at least Republicans are all about tax cuts, letting
us keep our money to do as we wish more than dems who love
taking our hard earned money...

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC Boy do you know how to generalize decades of government spending with "Republicans spent more than democrats".

Umm, is that somehow run counter to my point over the past 26 years with the last 4 presidents?

quote:

Anyway, at least Republicans are all about tax cuts, letting us keep our money to do as we wish more than dems who love taking our hard earned money...

Hmm, please don't tell Reagan that, who happened to impose a tax hike after his tax cut by the advice of my former Senator Bob Dole. A little trip down memory lane for you:

quote:

The following year, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act of 1984. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion. The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 raised taxes yet again. Even the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue-neutral, contained a net tax increase in its first two years. And the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 raised taxes still more. The year 1988 appears to be the only year of the Reagan presidency, other than the first, in which taxes were not raised legislatively. Of course, previous tax increases remained in effect. According to a table in the 1990 budget, the net effect of all these tax increases was to raise taxes by $164 billion in 1992, or 2.6 percent of GDP. This is equivalent to almost $300 billion in today's economy http://www.townhall.com/opinion/col.../28/168618.html

That article goes on to mention that Reagan, in fact, raised taxes 7 times. Also please don't inform Bush Sr. for imposing the tax hike that he implemented proceeding his "no new taxes" debacle.

And please don't remember how incredible our economy was with Clinton's economic policies in place either with a tax hike primarily on the upper echelon.

And let's keep something in mind as well - Democrats today propose keeping the tax cut for the middle class in the same manner as Clinton did. What they disagree with is keeping the tax cuts for the upper class, the top 10% which receives 90% of the tax cut, as well as tax breaks to corporations and oil companies which I've posted my criticisms on in another thread. I realize as much as any old bloke that you may believe they are entitled to their money as much as those in the middle class, but in terms of helping boost the economy this is NOT the ideal philosophy to hold.

Our recovery from the 2001 little recession has been one of the most anemic on record as a result of these asinine tax cuts to the wealthy. The only reason why it didn't get worse was because the GOP-led Congress helped maintain and even increase federal spending by using BORROWED money instead of tax revenues. It wasn't the tax cuts that helped us with our recovery - it was the fucking borrowing like a teenager with daddy's credit card.

And guess what? Guess who has to pay back that bill from your Administration and GOP Congress' borrowing and spend-thrift habits in efforts to support their tax cut?

And let's also keep something in mind in regards to Clinton vs. Dubya: Clinton's discretionary spending increased from $539 to $614 billion during his time in office - a 13% increase. Wanna know how much discretionary spending has increased for Dubya? From $649 to $967 as of February '06, a 48% increase.

I'm sorry, you were saying something about the history of librul spending?

Finally, a run-down on numbers of inflation-adjusted increase in tax revenues during Reagan's presidency: 22.13%

Clinton's presidency: 81%

Dubya so far: 17%

All of which can be found here: http://www.bea.gov/

The bottom line is these tax cuts are not paying for themselves, period. I love idealism as much as the next guy about keeping my $ from taxes and all that jazz, but I've accepted the notion that as an American citizen I am required to pay my taxes to the government and hope that my government can sustain itself without borrowing the shit out of itself and have it come back to bite us all in the collective asses down the road.

I'll leave you with a word from none other than the Wall Street Journal back in July of this year:

quote:

Do Tax Cuts Pay for Themselves? Not if you read the fine print in the new White House midsession review of budget trends. "While difficult to estimate precisely," Treasury long-run analyses of the effects of President Bush's tax cuts "may ultimately" raise total national output of goods and services by 0.7%. .....So is that enough to pay for the tax cuts, even after allowing them to work their economic magic over the next 10 years? The Center for Budget Policies and Priorities, a Washington think tank and advocacy group that is distinctly unfriendly to Bush fiscal policies, says it isn't. "A 0.7 percent increase in the economic output that the Congressional Budget Office has projected for 2016 would represent an additional $146 billion [in gross domestic product]," it says. "If new revenues equaled as much as 20% of the additional output, the increase in revenues resulting from making the tax cuts permanent (assuming Treasury's best-case assumptions) would be $29 billion." http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/...for-themselves/

Actually, let me give you a few more pieces. This following analysis demonstrates that since WWII, Democratic presidents have consistently produced greater GDP growth, lower unemployment, and lower inequality versus Republican presidents:

http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/income.pdf

An interesting piece on the stock market, although it's a bit dated:

http://www.slate.com/?id=2071929

And if you're really interested, here's an analysis back in '04 of comparison:

http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

I'll be honest, I never read your posts, so long and
boring with equally boring links I'm sure. You put
alot of effort into them thou, bravo.

Anyway, I support their spending on important things
like defense. You say it's a bad thing republicans
spend more, I say it was necessary because of lack
of proper funding by dems and counter their cuts.

Fine you can say reagan from 20 years ago as an example
of a republican not into tax cuts. But as parties they
are the ones more for tax cuts than dems.

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC I'll be honest, I never read your posts, so long and boring with equally boring links I'm sure. You put alot of effort into them thou, bravo.

Then you have given everyone the perfect excuse to not read yours. How can you say you are right on any issue when the only way you ca be right about anything is to understand the other side.

too bad, though, you do have some good points,,,,,

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Then you have given everyone the perfect excuse to not read yours. How can you say you are right on any issue when the only way you ca be right about anything is to understand the other side. too bad, though, you do have some good points,,,,,

I skim thru his only because I don't have time to read it
AND the links to support his arguements here at work. And
to tell you the truth after I skim I realize I've heard
them before but they won't change my opinion on the matter.

Wish I had time to post links to support my assurtations.
But we're just expressing our views and I don't think many
of us can change each other's mind about alot. So I'm not
saying I'm right, just that's how I see things and I can
always be wrong as I accept I don't know everything about
the world but like reading other points of views.

Just alot of the talking points about little things and
statistics decades ago gets alittle boring. And all the
generalizations others do is annoying as well, them you
call them on it and they post links and links from editorials
and stuff about the smallest thing. Anyway I dunno it's late
and I got 4 more hrs of work so I'm just rambling, but kudos
to the guy.

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC I skim thru his only because I don't have time to read it AND the links to support his arguements here at work. And to tell you the truth after I skim I realize I've heard them before but they won't change my opinion on the matter.

Ahh, some terrific debating techniques you ascribe to on full display. Excellent work.

quote:

Wish I had time to post links to support my assurtations.

It would certainly help your arguments. You see, in a debating forum such as this, I do my best to support my assertions with evidence. I try hard not to make too many unsupported baseless opinions that I cannot back up.

You should try it once in a while. It might actually help you make a point for a change.

quote:

But we're just expressing our views

You're in the wrong forum for that. The COR is just down the hall.

quote:

and I don't think many of us can change each other's mind about alot.

Actually my mind has been changed quite frequently when I do myself and everyone else a favor and read supporting assertions that counter any argument I make. I'm happy to be proven incorrect, and I'm happy to concede points that run counter to mine.

They just have to be supported with evidence, that's all.

quote:

So I'm not saying I'm right, just that's how I see things and I can always be wrong as I accept I don't know everything about the world but like reading other points of views.

You can be wrong, but only if you choose to read assertions that run counter to yours. The only way you are never wrong is when you choose not to listen, much in the manner as you are proving right now.

quote:

Just alot of the talking points about little things and statistics decades ago gets alittle boring.

Then don't make an argument that is easily refuted next time, champ.

quote:

And all the generalizations others do is annoying as well,

Hi pot, this is kettle. Perhaps you can pinpoint where I made generalizations, especially in the league as yours?

quote:

them you call them on it and they post links and links from editorials and stuff about the smallest thing.

Well if you actually got off your lazy, ignorant ass you'd find that I posted more than just mere editorials - they have facts to support them. Try a few links yourself and find out.

quote:

Anyway I dunno it's late and I got 4 more hrs of work so I'm just rambling, but kudos to the guy.

Umm, I guess thanks.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC I'll be honest, I never read your posts, so long and boring with equally boring links I'm sure. You put alot of effort into them thou, bravo. Anyway, I support their spending on important things like defense. You say it's a bad thing republicans spend more, I say it was necessary because of lack of proper funding by dems and counter their cuts. Fine you can say reagan from 20 years ago as an example of a republican not into tax cuts. But as parties they are the ones more for tax cuts than dems.

If you plug your ears any harder, I'll bet your fingers will touch in the middle of your brain.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

hey are they gonna show this on paperview or HBO?

quote:

Originally posted by Kapedan hey are they gonna show this on paperview or HBO?

YouTube

And opus you're wasting your time writing and quoting,
it's too long and boring man j/k lol

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

Wow, this is so wrong. I can't believe he was offed so quickly.

___________________
"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers I can't believe he was offed so quickly.

Are you honestly that surprised?

I'm extremely disappointed by this, by the way.