quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles How so?

It's is really hard to isolate anything in history as being completely detached from religion - it's such a significant thing to the entire human experience. Many more examples come to mind of 'religion taken too far' than any movement or event that was done with purely secular aim. The communist movement however, was one that was centred around the power of the people and of man's ability to work and earn and participate in something he created that was much greater than himself. Not gods or religion - but people. How many millions died in Soviet Gulag though? Out of the name of what? Civic servitude? Allegiance to God and not country? There were of course several reasons why people were put into forced labour camps during that time period - and of course several cases were without any reason whatsoever.

I am not saying that this was necessarily 'because they didn't have religion to guide them' or something like that. But man serves whomever he serves - be it God or Mother Russia or some greater ideal. This can make people do horrible things that they justify by their faith in whatever process they subscribe to. Secular following, however, tends to be that of counter-movement moreso than religious followings participate in for the sake of countenance. The active presence of non-religion is just as harmful in that sense - on both sides of the spectrum, there is no limit to man's inhumanity towards man. Be it people taking lives in the name of their god or people taking lives in the name of peace and order - killing is still killing, no matter the reason, no matter the source.

Religion may kill free thought in some cases, but a pastor with a book is just as effective as a demagogue in a pea coat. People blindly following ideals and orders without thought, without remorse or insight will always meet the same fate, religion or not. Religion keeps people in line - it keeps them straight and proper and inhibited (in public, at least), it is order incarnated into code and dispersed much in the same way that anyone would choose to propagandize.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Watching the scenes with the kids in the church praising the lords name, reminds of those Sunday specials on TV when thousands upon thousands of people gather in one arena(or wherever) and they have a minister talking to them and they all have their hands in the air, yelling, singing, crying, falling to the ground.

What's funny is when the minister slightly taps them on the head and they make this big over exaggerated fall/faint to the ground and seem to be all cured.

Actually, I think the problem is faith, whether in a religious ideology or a secular one such as communism, not just religion. Faith is what gives the authoritarians and demagogues their power, religious and irreligious.

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Originally posted by Frenchie Watching the scenes with the kids in the church praising the lords name, reminds of those Sunday specials on TV when thousands upon thousands of people gather in one arena(or wherever) and they have a minister talking to them and they all have their hands in the air, yelling, singing, crying, falling to the ground. What's funny is when the minister slightly taps them on the head and they make this big over exaggerated fall/faint to the ground and seem to be all cured.

There's a kid in that video that drops to the ground and start convulsing.

I'm going to become a nun.

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Originally posted by Frenchie I'm going to become a nun.

Will you fly?

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I was this close to chopping her face onto it.

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Originally posted by Frenchie I'm going to become a nun.

my ass.

Oh pffffft, thanks for the confidence guys.

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Originally posted by Frenchie Oh pffffft, thanks for the confidence guys.

ohh pfft indeed.

Pfffffft, WHATEVER OK!

I could do it.

bahhh