How often do you go on track? Once, twice a year?
I'm talking about actual ownership and day to day driving experiences, not just when you borrow it for a spin on a track.
Japanese/Korean cars have their problems too, most reliable (Corolla/Civic) are just to get from A to B, you don't enjoy them, unlike when I was going 200 km/h on 401 (in long turn just before Milton) in 20 year old BMW.

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quote:

Originally posted by MarkT haha...the S4 wasn't exactly a shining beacon of quality either in its early years comparing a luxery sports sedan to a sports coupe though...it's kind of hard to do. I'm a fan of performance first, luxery and appearance being secondary. Given that...what car would you rather have on the track, an STi or an S4? how about WRX vs. A4? Subes are cheaper too and an S4 is packing about an extra 700 lbs vs. an STi too. all fun cars...I really wouldn't turn away driving any one of them...but they're not comparable, IMHO...and this "german quality" is bullshit too (hell, I'm half German, so I'm not down on the germans). VW's crappy quality record (until recently) is proof of that.

I would agree, though I still think the fit & finish of German cars is worlds ahead of anything else. The problem has been with Bosch making shitty electrics for the past 10 years. It's like they took a page from the Lucas book or electrics (any old Brit car fans will know what I'm talking about).

Around a track, I would rather has something disposable, and cheap on parts. STi vs S4 is a fun argument to have, and around a track they're likely pretty close. But, you gotta have some serious $$$ just to put other rims, R-compound tires, good brake pads etc etc on either of these cars. Sure the STi comes with Brembo's, but you still need to replace the pads.

Give me a Miata, 2nd gen RX7, AE86 Corolla GTS, 1st or 2nd gen MR2....

All of these will be cheaper to buy initially, cheaper on parts, cheaper on tires, and cheaper to write off if you make a learning mistake and stuff it into the wall at the bottom of Mostport turn 2.

The money you save can go into some good suspension, a ROLL CAGE, and most importantly, DRIVING SCHOOLS.

edit: for everyday driving, I want something that's also fun on track

quote:

Originally posted by Zeidoo

that has to be at like 5am because normally that circle around the Arc de Triomphe is rammed with cars...

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Originally posted by jon jon that has to be at like 5am because normally that circle around the Arc de Triomphe is rammed with cars...

Yeah it is. This video is a classic in auto circles. The driver is legendary.

On an August morning in 1978, French filmmaker Claude Lelouch mounted a gyro-stabilized camera to the bumper of a Ferrari 275 GTB and had a friend, a professional Formula 1 racer, drive at breakneck speed through the heart of Paris. The film was limited for technical reasons to 10 minutes; the course was from Porte Dauphine, through the Louvre, to the Basilica of Sacre Coeur.

No streets were closed, for Lelouch was unable to obtain a permit.

The driver completed the course in about 9 minutes, reaching nearly 140 MPH in some stretches. The footage reveals him running real red lights, nearly hitting real pedestrians, and driving the wrong way up real one-way streets.

Upon showing the film in public for the first time, Lelouch was arrested. He has never revealed the identity of the driver, and the film went underground until a DVD release a few years ago.

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Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

that is the gayest form of gay in gayland.

that so unimpresses me.

the guy is a good driver but keep it on the track, that's what it is for. To make a fucking video you have to risk people's lives. Fuck that. What excuse would you give if you killed someone? "I was making a video".

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess that so unimpresses me.

correction!

that makes me SOOOO FUCKING ANGRY!!

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess the guy is a good driver but keep it on the track, that's what it is for. To make a fucking video you have to risk people's lives. Fuck that. What excuse would you give if you killed someone? "I was making a video".

This is what is makes it so legendary. All the more fun! Without risk there's nothing.

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LIVID!!!!

pffft. I bet there were a number of accidents in Paris that day, and none of them caused by a Ferrari.

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I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

Since moving to the mountains, I have learned that ice is a deadly enemy.

One day after work driving home (I take a front range highway with mega hills), I was going up the mega hill in question when I lost all traction and proceeded to start sliding backwards down the hill. Luckily, I stopped the car and managed to work my way over so that two tires were on packed snow and made it over the hill after a white-knuckling 15 min battle.

In short, homey don't drive dem hills after its been icey out and takes the hour longer route home instead.

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quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse ...The money you save can go into some good suspension, a ROLL CAGE, and most importantly, DRIVING SCHOOLS. edit: for everyday driving, I want something that's also fun on track

you hit it right on the head there...driving school. The single biggest improvement the average driver will see in their performance is to go to racing school and learn how to *really* drive their car, regardless of what kind of car they have.

I put myself in that category too. Shortly after getting the Talon, I took it up to a very well known shop in the DSM/Sube racing scene. Even though the Talon was my first experience with boost, I felt that I was reasonably competent behind the wheel. That was until the shop owner took it out for a spin to gauge what kind of shape it was in. It turned out to *quite* the driving lesson, lol. wow.

Really good tires are 2nd...anything else, probably a distant 3rd


better driving skills would have prevented at least half of those accidents in the video...some of those clowns (esp. the first guy, LOL), clearly have no idea what to do in that situation!