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| quote: | Originally posted by sterilis
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"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
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you people call me a racist when this is your teachings. |
No, but I sure as hell can call you ignorant for taking on face value a poor translation from someone who isn't bilingual. One of the earlierst English translations of the Quran was done by Muhammad Marmaduke William Pickthall, who was an English convert to Islam, in 1930. Arabic obviously wasn't his first language and semetic languages differ significantly from Proto-Germanic languages such as English. Another English translation that followed shortly after that was the work of Abdullah Yusuf Ali, an Indian who's first language was neigther English nor Arabic, in 1934. I would hardly consider those to be free from errors, terrible mistranslations, and biases of their personal interpretations. Maybe you're not aware of this. but the Quran is in Arabic, in it's original form, and original language. Anything else is considered to be a tranlation and not the actual Quran. There's not many English translations that exist in the first place and most of them are very poorly done, by people who eigther have a poor command of English or Arabic, and sometimes even both. And most English tranlation since then, with a few exceptions, aren't terribly different and are more often than not derivitive of older translations.
Having said that, if you know anything about semetic languages, Arabic in particular, you should be well aware of the fact that many word have a several different shades, and even completely different meanings. Alot of those words have no equivilant in English, which is another reason for poor translations. This particular verse is a very good example of that. The actual word in Arabic doesn't mean 'friends,' it has no equivilant in English. The closest English equivilant would be overlord or ally. But even that's not entirely accurate. The word is more akin to someone who looks after or shares your intertests.
Here's another claim Islam (or the Qur'an) makes about itself with respect to Judaism and Christianity. The Torah and Bible are considered to be previous revelations and book from Allah that no longer exist in their original forms and have ben corrupted by man over the centuries to suit the interests of particularly those in power through the course of history, especially corrupt or misguided Rabbis and Clerics/Preists, kind of like a good majority of Mullahs around today. Except they rely on ignorance and mistranslation as opposed to modifying the actual text.
Another aspect to interpreting the Qur'an that is considered essential for any meanigful understanding of it is keeping in mind the historical contenxt of the Surah (chapter) and verses in context to that Surah.
This particular Surah, Al-Ma'idah, was one of the last few Surah to be revealed to Muhammad. Now keep in mind everything I just said so far in this entire post. So this verse has nothing to do with not being 'friends' with Chrisitans or Jews, or being prejudiced/hostile towards them. Also, back in the day, it wasn't only the Pagan tribes of Media and Mecca, particularly the Quraish, who were very hostile to this new religion/ideology that threatened the status quo and the then power structure, but even some Chrisitans and Jews, which Muslims and the Quran consider people of the Book. Now this is where it gets kind of politically incorrect, so I apologize in advance. This verse was meant to be a reminder to Muslims to not go astray from Allah teachings like many Jews and Christians had done so in the past, and not to expect them to necessarily be sympathetic or understanding towards Muslims and their plight.
So I hope that cleared any misconceptions you have. I apologize if my tone is somewhat aggressive, but it really pisses me off since this verse is so often used to promote both anti-Muslim sentiment and propaganda in the West, particularly by [some] preachers/bishops/priests, Rabbis, and the media, most of who out of ignorance probably think genuinly think that's what it means, and by [some] Imams and Mullahs in the East (and even the West) to promote anti-Western sentiment and legitimize their sick agendas. [EDIT:] And I think it's fair to say their motivations are far from spirtual, promoting peace, understanding, or talerance. Seems to be working wonders for them apparently. [/EDIT]
I'm a little sick of both non-Muslims and Muslims being clubbed on the head with a distorted misrepresentation of the meaning of this verse to promote distrust and/or hatred.
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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller
Last edited by shaolin_Z on Jan-31-2007 at 22:22
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