And it's not glorificaton, it's reality. If you can't deal with, don't bother watching it or posting in the thread.

EDIT: Reality which is rather unpleasant that most people don't want to deal with hence all the lame requests for bans and suspensions.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Not that I like any of these scum bags, but is this not glorification?

tranceaddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Fazul Abdullah Mohammed

Keep in mind, labels are completely subjective and interchangeable; terroist/Soldier/Freedom Figher, whatever.

EDIT: Don't see anyone complaining about that one, or requesting a ban, or closing the thread. And no, I don't want it to be closed.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Actually, it did spark a debate. Maybe you missed it: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...7&forumid=66&s= 8 pages EDIT: And I haven't watched a single one of those videos btw.

I thumbed through it, and it apparently quickly became a silly flame war. I could be wrong, but it appears that such inflammatory posts like the original one posted that started that thread will likely become flame wars, rather than worthwhile debate.

And again, I can't disagree with Neo's final thought on that thread:

quote:

The thread starter has previously posted this kind of video before and it only portrays a glorified view on the loss of american lives from an extremist stand point. it is not closed because its american lives and american armourment being shot, it is closed for the way it's portrayed and that only. The same would apply if someone posted a video of iraqi people / soldiers being killed and that was portrayed in a glorified manner

Do you not agree with this reasoning? If not, why not?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Or how about this shit? Is this not offesive?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo sometimes i believe there are some mutherf@@kers that need be in a naked pyramid.

tranceaddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > New Accounts of Torture by U.S. Troops...

Or this:

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo sweet! sounds like Naked Muslem Pyramid time again. Iran sucks huge floppy donkey dicks. smart people have known this for decades. the only reason they are there is to start shit, just like everywhere else they crawl out from under, Lebanon, Argentina, France, Indonesia but every liberal, leftist, Amerikkka hating, moral equalizer will give this a pass as well.

tranceaddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > U.S. Is Holding Iranians Seized in Raids in Iraq

And that's not glorification of dehumanization and brutalization? I just love the double standards here.

EDIT: That second post also screams of prejudice and bigotry btw, apart from just reflecting malicious barbarism.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Feb-13-2007 at 00:42

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Not that I like any of these scum bags, but is this not glorification?

Temporarily un-ignore you.

I put that down as my a-political comment towards the debate in that thread, unlike the Saddam thread of much the same kind of gloating but I didn't get dragged over the coals. I've made a rule for myself not to comment in conflict related topics in future because it's a more or less just chest beating and name calling after the first page.
Either no one wants to hear my opinion, I'm not understood or there's some other reason, but it's been a waste of time because I apparently cannot communicate.

So, I'll stick to the more marginalised topics of interest here instead rather than continue an exercise of futility.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I thumbed through it, and it apparently quickly became a silly flame war. I could be wrong, but it appears that such inflammatory posts like the original one posted that started that thread will likely become flame wars, rather than worthwhile debate.

That's not uncommon on PDD. In the past, when we had a regular Mod, people who did that got suspeded, warned, or banned. Not reason enough to close the thread.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 And again, I can't disagree with Neo's final thought on that thread: quote: The thread starter has previously posted this kind of video before and it only portrays a glorified view on the loss of american lives from an extremist stand point. it is not closed because its american lives and american armourment being shot, it is closed for the way it's portrayed and that only. The same would apply if someone posted a video of iraqi people / soldiers being killed and that was portrayed in a glorified manner Do you not agree with this reasoning? If not, why not?

Alright, assuming the orginial thread started was 'glorifying' it, which isn' the case, there was plenty of debate in that thread.

Plus, it not glorification. At worst, it's him thinking the soldiers are getting what he thinks they deserve. That's not glorification.

But I thought the political statement it makes is more important than the thread starters take on it. And that the reality of war and human cost.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Folks here know very well that I strongly disagree with the American invasion into Iraq for a myriad of reasons, but I will NOT agree to any footage or glorification of death in such a manner. And I think something else needs to be kept in mind - this isn't a democracy on this board. Our "freedom of speech" here in these threads is held as high as being mere guests in the house of Tranceaddict. Being members ("guests") does not entail our voices to be heard with equal weight by any means. That Neo, Swamper, or anyone else has allowed us free speech with equal weight is a priviledge that can be taken away for any reason they see fit. That such a priviledge essentially feels like a democracy of free speech with equal weight with each voice 99.99% of the time does not entail by any stretch of the imagination that it truly is - the gatekeepers can still enforce things whenever the hell they choose because: a. they have the power to do so b. it's their site, not "ours" c. 99.99% they are very reasonable and rational in their decisions But just because they are almost always reasonable does not entail we can say and do whatever the hell we want. We have to abide by their rules too, and in this case it appeared that Startraveller did not. I've seen people being suspended and/or banned for much less things here over the years, and as far as I know Startraveller is not banned. Again it might seem arbitrary on the surface on how they enforce rules from time to time, but 99.99% I find that they are very reasonable with their rules and enforcement. They obviously have an interest in being reasonable to keep their site popular and running with good volume (as well as trying to be logically consistent with everyone), but it is simply up to us to play and argue within those boundaries that they create, and after over 6 years of being here I've never had a problem with it. And this is coming from a tree-huggin', hippie librul protestor, no less ;D. Added in Edit: I like Lira a lot myself, but I'm having a difficult time on what anyone here might be disagreeing with Neo's actions here. What exactly is the problem that anyone here has with his rationale? Personally I think he's being very reasonable as usual.

Hmmm... I remember you expressing a different sentiment in this thread:

tranceaddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Save Zionist Mustard! Ban a Mod - now hijacked and turned into a 70's soap opera

Didn't expect that from you Opus.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

At issue here are two things:

One is the posting of videos which are obviously intended by those who create the video to glorify the killing of people, innocent or not, with the added intention of agitating and inflaming a situation to illicit a response. It equates to a snuf film, and really has no place in a civilized debate about a topic. Regardless of which 'side' posts it.

The other is the general nature of the posting style of star-traveller. He almost without exception will post a thread that is solely a senstaionalist headline to get you to click for a copy/paste job of an article from somewhere. Yes, he does put a link to his source in the topic, but his posts are rarely anything other than throwing some obscure article up to see if he can illicit a reaction. On days when he does this multiple times in short succession, it feels a lot like the spam people get in their email with random subjects but all the same "invest in this obscure stock" content. A lot of people come here to interact with and see the opinions of other "real" people, not to read clippings posted without being used in the context of those thoughts. If he took a little more time to post any kind of comment along with his tons of articles (many of which do not even say what his eye-catching headlines insinuate) he would get a better "rap" than he does. Most of the times he just comes off as annoying.

And as Opus said, and it really needs to be undestood by all the users:

There is NO freedom of speech protection on this, or any, web board. They are all considered private property, and their owners have the right to monitor and censor the content as they see fit. People should be happy Swamper continues to support this forum and has rarely seen the need to flex the muscle of his rights as the owner of the site to filter/edit/delete content as he sees fit.

MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel At issue here are two things: One is the posting of videos which are obviously intended by those who create the video to glorify the killing of people, innocent or not, with the added intention of agitating and inflaming a situation to illicit a response. It equates to a snuf film, and really has no place in a civilized debate about a topic. Regardless of which 'side' posts it.

1. No it doesn't.

2. What kind of place does advocating carpet bombing the shit out of countries or 'naked Muslem human pyramids time baby!' have in a civilized debate? Please do shut up. Our foreign policy has no place in a civilized world. There's alot that is said and advocated here that has no place in a "civilized debate or discussion." I don't get all up in arms about it every time and go running to the mods like a little baby.

3. You guys are total hypocrites. I've noticed how selectively 'rules' are enforced here. You only have a problem with something that upset you, but apparently that doesn't apply to others.

4. If it makes you feel better, have Neo ban me too.

[EDIT] 5. And what's all this talk about "civilized debate." We haven't been able to have one of those on PDD for a while now.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Feb-13-2007 at 01:24

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z 1. No it doesn't.

quote:

2. What kind of place does advocating carpet bombing the shit out of countries or 'naked Muslem human pyramids time baby!' have in a civilized debate? Please do shut up. Our foreign policy has no place in a civilized world. There's alot that is said and advocated here that has no place in a "civilized debate or discussion." I don't get all up in arms about it every time and go running to the mods like a little baby.

Pictures of those incidents have no place either, I do not in any way support the foreign policy of the Bush Administration, just because I do not condone the posting of snuf films does not mean I support carpet bombing or abusing prisoners.

quote:

3. You guys are total hypocrites. I've noticed how selectively 'rules' are enforced here. You only have a problem with something that upset you, but apparently that doesn't apply to others.

A little life lesson for you, ALL rules are selectively enforced, it is just the breaks. I am not upset about anything, I am just tired of hearing this bullshit "it is free speech" diatribe. I did not even see the post in question, I just read the new sticky.

quote:

4. If it makes you feel better, have Neo ban me too.

I don't care if anyone does or doesn't get banned, it has no bearing on my life. I must note though, nowhere did I say that star-traveller should be banned.

quote:

[EDIT] 5. And what's all this talk about "civilized debate." We haven't been able to have one of those on PDD for a while now.

Just because there has not been a civilized debate in a while does not mean that having them is not the overall purpose of this forum, and the goal everyone here should strive to achieve.


MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Anyways, most of the people who're complaining about this with requests for bans or whatever are the ones who never really contribute anything to PDD themselves other than trolling different threads with nonconstructive rants or pure opinion backed up by nothing factual. If you want me to name a few, I can, but I'd rather not. Most of these people starting posting on the unmoderated PDD after Lira stepped down from his position as Mod. I don't really think that's a coincidence eigther since now they know they can get away with it and annoy the crap out of people without having to argue a single point.

Wow Shaolin, you just described every Thread you post...... huh, go fig.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Wow Shaolin, you just described every Thread you post...... huh, go fig.

You do know how to read right?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller