"Globalwarming, Fact or Theory???"


lol, you gotta be kidding me.

It is called cycles. Plain and simple.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH So I saw An Inconvenient Truth last night. Not that I really needed any convincing because there's been a ton of proof out there in the last decade that what we're killing this planet, but it's nice to see all the facts presented the way they were.

great movie, thought provoking.

the one thing about the movie that al gore doesn't get into is when he casually states that forest fires (mostly from africa) contribute to about 30% of C02 emissions than goes off talking about another subject.

30% or so? that's quite alot.

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quote:

Originally posted by slingshot 98% of sceintists agree that human behaviour is having an adverse affect on global warming.

LOL!

That is a funny, funny statement.

Think about it for a second.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Yes I'm questioning the scientific community. They're not always right, especially considering scientists are not unanimous on the topic of global warming in the first place. Our understanding is pretty high, but not complete.

No actually it is mostly unanimous. There's people out there who still question that the Earth the is round, does that mean we should get back to the debate on whether the Earth is flat or not? Most of the people that argue these things usually have no scientific background and just talk out of their ass for the sake of argument.

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Where is it written what the temperatures right now should be? What the temperatures should be is basically a prediction no different from the daily forecast predictions we see on the news. And coupled with the fact that our understanding of climate is not complete and is just theories, who says our educated guesses about temperatures that should be are at all accurate? We can't even come up with a definite cause of the ice ages (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Causes_of_ice_ages), and yet somehow we know what the temperature right now should be?

Yes, by following a pattern. These predictions aren't pulled out of some scientists ass. They come to this conclusion by looking at past figures. The same way you can get a general idea what time a bus will arrive based on past experience. So far, nowhere in the history of this planet have temperatures and CO2 levels increased so dramatically, which would lead one to the obvious conclusion that there's some "3rd party" having an adverse effect on these two things.

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How does one decide what sources are credible? Oh, I know, irrefutable proof. And for now, there is none. Notice no one ever says "this does that" or "this will cause that to happen" (because that's stating a fact which will have to be backed up with proof of correctness), it's always said "the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations" or "Global warming may increase the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events". The difference is you're taking the "likely" and the "may" as facts, and I'm taking them exactly for what they are - uncertainties.

lol now you're just jumping on semantics. This isn't a 50/50 thing where it may or may not be true. All of the things you've stated have either been proven or so much conclusive research has been done on them that they're as good as true.

"Climate Change and Extreme Weather Events"

Humans linked to global warming
Article 2

Bush aides revise scientific reports on greenhouse gases link to global warming

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Mar-08-2007 at 23:07

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH

I think you should give these a read. Let me know what you think.

The Impossibility of Prediction - http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speeches/npc-speech.html

Fear, Complexity, Environmental Management in the 21st Century http://www.michaelcrichton.com/spee...complexity.html

its always something. save the rainforest save the whales save the ozone save the jews. like fuck everyyear theres some other way we're gonna blow up the earth, Maybe all this shit is just the earth's way of saying get the fuck off of me. and itll exterminate and live on. lets just fuck off already

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH No actually it is mostly unanimous. There's people out there who still question that the Earth the is round, does that mean we should get back to the debate on whether the Earth is flat or not? Yes, by following a pattern. These predictions aren't pulled out of some scientists ass. They come to this conclusion by looking at past figures. The same way you can get a general idea what time a bus will arrive based on past experience. So far, nowhere in the history of this planet have temperatures and CO2 levels increased so dramatically, which would lead one to the obvious conclusion that something is having an adverse effect on these two things. lol now you're just jumping on semantics. This isn't a 50/50 thing where it may or may not be true. All of the things you've stated have either been proven or so much conclusive research has been done on them that they're as good as true. "Climate Change and Extreme Weather Events" Humans linked to global warming Bush aides revise scientific reports on greenhouse gases link to global warming

What temperatures should be isn't even the point, the point is that we are having an adverse affect on our environment by PHYSICALLY changing it to the point where it may be severely impacting our ability to live in it. (if not immediately then it the very near future).

Rj, as for human behavior I think he means humans' actions.

Meh, crazy behavior tends to lead to crazy actions, ie us burning down the rain forest for cattle grazing, and doing other silly things like pumping gas into the atmosphere without thinking how does this affect the planet? Oh wait we're doing that now. lol

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I've just recently been getting really into the whole global warming thing and really learning about it. A club I helped form at the University is trying to arrange a screening of An Inconvenient Truth to make more students aware of the problem.

Take a look at this website: Stop Global Warming

I signed up last week.

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quote:

Originally posted by Vivid Boy Maybe all this shit is just the earth's way of saying get the fuck off of me.

I just had a mental picture

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quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Thanks, but the only thing anyone can say with a good degree of certainty is that our understanding of weather, climate, and how it all ties into the grand scheme of things on Earth is shady at best. Atmosphere, plate tectonics, and other fluid dynamics are still considered to be 'chaos systems' which is a nice scientific way of saying "we don't know how the fuck these things operate at all, but we're sure it's not random". I'm not saying global warming is not happening. And I'm agreeing that CO2 emissions are increasing. And both are not good for us. But tying the two together as cause-and-effect without truly understanding how things work is not a sound scientific method. Furthermore, proving that CO2 emissions contribute to global warming, and extrapolating from that that CO2 is causing global warming is quite a stretch. For all we know, a million other things could be contributing to global warming, so CO2 emissions or no CO2 emissions, our planet could still get warmer and we'll still go into another Ice Age. If the first Ice Age happened without any human involvement, I don't find it that hard to believe that humans played only a minuscule part in the coming of the second one. I'm on both sides of the issue here. I'm quite certain polluting our air is not a good idea, particularly because I breathe it, but I also disagree with "hey let's reduce our CO2 emissions, and everything will be fine and dandy". Lastly, this thread is going to be chalk full appeals to authority and statistics that were made up on the spot (as is already happening), so unless you (and I mean everyone who is going to pick a side and argue heartily for it) provide some credible proofs and sources of your "facts", I'm going to refute each argument with "God says you're wrong, so you're wrong" and it'll hold just as much water as your argument. And since I'm on both sides of the fence, I'll have no less of a problem saying that to people who defend the theory than as the people who refute it.

Honestly, this is really the only post that needs to be read. Cosmic is right, the earth's system is just too large for us to know precisely what is going on.

The only way to accurately model the earth, would be to have an exact copy of it.

What humans really need to look at is not global warming, but a sustainable way of living. We are wasteful by nature, and if you can increase our efficiency we will all be in a better place.

Things like driving smaller cars, using more efficient light bulbs, walking more, maybe even eating less, these are things we should be focusing on.