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Originally posted by Trance Nutter what the fuck? Thats the most long-winded way I could ever think of doing it. Up until now I've never even contemplated counting grooves or working out how far the needle moves per number of bars or anything like that. The only time I look at the grooves is to see how much of the track has played if I'm not paying attention. Its simple, pretty much what this guy said: "The phrasing refers to musical phrases. If you pay attention, you'll hear that elements are usually layered or repeat every 8, 16, or 32 bars (assuming 4/4 time signature). You don't want to drop a track in the middle of a phrase since you would end up having two phrases not aligned and it would sound odd, hence the technique called 'phrasing'. It's actually fairly simple to do, and to be honest, doesn't require 'knowing your tracks'- it's definitely possible to predict the structure of a track."

I started producing tracks and took music theory long before I started DJ'ing, so I understand the phrasing concept quite well.

When you look at the record and can "see" that the 16 bar breakdown is a half an inch wide, it's reasonable to assume if there's a solid 1.5 inches before the outro or another breakdown, then that section is probably 48 bars long. I don't see what's so difficult about using this method as a reference?

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Originally posted by DJMaytag I started producing tracks and took music theory long before I started DJ'ing, so I understand the phrasing concept quite well. When you look at the record and can "see" that the 16 bar breakdown is a half an inch wide, it's reasonable to assume if there's a solid 1.5 inches before the outro or another breakdown, then that section is probably 48 bars long. I don't see what's so difficult about using this method as a reference?

The fact that a DJ who stares at his vinyl looks like a total wanker?

There's a FAR simpler method of phrasing that is guaranteed to work EVERY TIME once you've practiced it a bit.


BEAT COUNTING


And after about a month straight of counting beats to EVERYTHING you hear, including the number of times a hockey player punches someone in the face, you wont have to count anymore and you'll sort of just know at what point you are in the 32 bar interval (32 bars because in a house tune the general rule is that the track changes SIGNIFICANTLY after 32 bars)

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PS I have a vinyl in front of me, with some measuring tape, and I happen to know that the track on this vinyl has a breakdown of 32 bars and despite all the measurements I'm making I cannot see how this is in anyway musical.

Music is measured in bars, not inches or even centimeters for that matter!


Perhaps it's a revolution I've yet to hear of, that of a DJ bringing his CD case, headphones, vinyls AND MEASURING TAPE to his or her gig.

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lmao

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I once made a set that was six feet long.

LOL

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Originally posted by Alex The fact that a DJ who stares at his vinyl looks like a total wanker? There's a FAR simpler method of phrasing that is guaranteed to work EVERY TIME once you've practiced it a bit. BEAT COUNTING And after about a month straight of counting beats to EVERYTHING you hear, including the number of times a hockey player punches someone in the face, you wont have to count anymore and you'll sort of just know at what point you are in the 32 bar interval (32 bars because in a house tune the general rule is that the track changes SIGNIFICANTLY after 32 bars)

OMG I NEVER THOUGHT OF BEAT COUNTING!

Looking at the vinyl is simply a REFERENCE I use to go along with beat counting, to know exactly where I should throw in the next track. I don't see what's so difficult about using that info as an additional tool to counting beats and know your tracks inside and out. Hell, no one jumped on the guy who suggested using the waveform display that's available in Rane's Serato Scratch... it's not really any different.

Check out my latest mix, which was made almost entirely from a stack of new vinyl that arrived the previous evening. Mixed live, first take, with all programming done on the fly (ie after the first track I had no idea what songs from the stack of 30 plus some of the semi-recent ones in my crate I was going to use in the mix). Overall I think the phrasing is pretty good, short of the mix between tracks 3 and 4 (track 4 has a 16x8x4 intro, and that's awfully tough to make sound perfect with that odd 4 bar drum roll).

DJMaytag - Venus De Milo Selections Volume III

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Does anyone have a program that will tell me when the phrases start and end? Don't they have a program called "Mixed in Phrases"?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by Beatflux Does anyone have a program that will tell me when the phrases start and end? Don't they have a program called "Mixed in Phrases"?

Ableton shows you warp markers, so a phrase would show up as Warp Marker 9, 17, 25, 33 etc


Whereas for each of those numbers there are of course


8 bars, 16 bars, 24 bars, 32 bars.

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All I have to say is that counting beats is the way to go. Its fast and easy and you will know how the song will go after 32 beats go by. (crash to crash)After awhile toy wont even have to count you will just know. Timing is everything!!o give everyone an example check out this set I recored back in November. I guarantee it is the most well timed set you will ever hear. All from counting beats. You dont have to download it. Just cut and paste the link and it it will load up and then hit play.

32 songs on 70 minutes of trance on 4 dennon 3500"s

http://www.musicv2.com/launch/david_jeffreys


You Can get the tracklist at

myspace.com/djdavidjeffreys

Last edited by David Jeffreys on Apr-10-2007 at 01:11

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Originally posted by David Jeffreys All I have to say is that counting beats is the way to go. Its fast and easy and you will know how the song will go after 32 beats go by. (crash to crash)After awhile toy wont even have to count you will just know. Timing is everything!!

try throwing in Full Blown's "Hot Cheerleader Sex" without really paying attention, watch how the crash to crash method works. it's got all sorts of stutter steps, where in the first measure of the phrase there's no kick, and the crash happens on the downbeat instead of the snare. Matt Rowan & Jaytech do the same thing a few times in "Silver Cities" (or whatever the name of the B-side track is on that vinyl).

Lots of old school tracks have wierd phrasing too, with the occasional 4 bar loop thrown in the middle of 8 and 16 bar phrases. Watch out of the 1 bar "dropout" phrases that occur in tracks where everything cuts out then comes back to 8 bar phrases.

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