Well that's an interesting point you bring up. Actually a lot of these ideas relate directly to the animation of characters as well as physics systems in today's video games, especially fighting/action games.

There is an Indiana Jones game coming out which uses a technology they call "Dynamic Motion Synthesis"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fACZMsKN7fk

watch this. note that they call it "Biomechanical Artificial Intelligence"

so after you watch this if you can rack your brain and imagine the same parametric ideas could be applied to music you might see what i am talking about.

Technology is always just a passing 'fad' so to speak, it comes and goes and constantly changing at a rapid pace, my stepfather who's an engineer of sorts explained that it was mostly a case, especially with software that they replace it too quickly.
What this leads to is 'artists' so to speak, the ones who push the envelope of the technology of the time having to constantly switch their art to a new media with little time to actually 'master' it at a risk of being left being left behind the curve.
Essentially the longer a product, tool or instrument gets left in service the better the results will be from it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur To explain it simply, SMC: Yes, you are. The toothbrush defines and controls your behavior when you hold it. In a sense, it is using you, not the other way around.

Yeah, the tootbrush coerces me to brush my teeth, it's taking over.

quote:

Originally posted by SMC Yeah, the tootbrush coerces me to brush my teeth, it's taking over.

It doesn't have to. You do that all by yourself. You give yourself willingly over to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur It doesn't have to. You do that all by yourself. You give yourself willingly over to it.

If it's my deliberate choice the toothbrush doesn't control shit, and that's not what you wrote earlier.

But is it really?

No, think about that.


(also: read Godel and Heisenberg)

quote:

Originally posted by SMC If it's my deliberate choice the toothbrush doesn't control shit, and that's not what you wrote earlier.

It's not the toothbrush controlling you. You are the one willingly submitting to the intended purpose of the toothbrush. It's not a bad thing; you need to brush your teeth after all. The point is, there are other ways of using the toothbrush (cleaning pipes, maybe?).

___________________

www.jexmusic.com - My website

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec @skip - it's not my theory. these are ideas that have been circulating since the 70s and probably earlier, and are popular now in other discourses such as architecture. again, I don't care if you disagree with me, that's fine. I just don't see the need to label things as bullshit. It's not about sugarcoating, it's about being mature and respectful. Why does what I am saying seem to personally anger you? I agree, negative opinions are the reason the world goes around. Check my signature for a quote on that. By that same token, if the ideas I am bringing up are a denial of the status quo, yhen we are really in the same game, aren't we... I think the first paragraph of my post says "this is not really an argument, more of a question". I didn't post this looking for arguments, like I said, it's not my theory, and I don't really believe in it, I only find it interesting and I wanted to bring it to public attention. If you think the ideas are fruitless, maybe you can say that in a more respectful way. Maybe in 5 years after I have thought about it more I will be able to form an argument about it, and then you can tell me it's not convincing, but for now you are wasting your time because you're arguing against an argument that doesn't even exist. On the other hand, I suppose I have made some of my own claims in this thread, and if you want to debate it, allow me some time to make the proper arguments. I don't really see how you yourself have made a 'convincing argument' or what that exactly is for you - are you talking sources etc? Because part of me thinks you call it unconvincing only because you disagree with it. @smc - with that particular machine you're not slave per se as you would be using like a jp8080 with presets, but I suppose the slave end of the spectrum for the tb 303 would be to use it as a bassline, which is how the machine is described, and the subversion is to use it as something other than a bassline. I see your point.

what personally angers me is the use of arguments and fancy words that don't mean anything.
what really got to me most about your post was the claim that biotech is half art half science and saying that this new sort of music is somehow biological. what does it seriously have to do with biology? i'd say nothing at all.
IMO you can't just go throwing around claims and arguments like that without any true knowledge about the things you use to support your argument. then when someone tries to shoot them down, you don't even back it up. so IMO you shouldn't make such claims in the first place if you can't back them up. i could also come up with some theory and support it with random scientifical sounding stuff that has nothing to do with it. but i don't really see a point in it. and yes, i am personally annoyed by such irrational behavior.
i also found the socialist/capitalist comment quite amusing as that too IMO had absolutely nothing to do with the subject. it just seemed you pulled that out of nowhere to make your point more convincing.
i'm not opposed to discussing these kind of things, but your way of presenting your point is what i have a problem with.
oh and that indiana jones commercial too IMO had nothing to do with biology. it had to do with physics modelling, but biology, no way. i also didn't see anything revolutionary in it.

___________________

Get Dropbox, with 250 MB extra space!

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex It's not the toothbrush controlling you. You are the one willingly submitting to the intended purpose of the toothbrush. It's not a bad thing; you need to brush your teeth after all. The point is, there are other ways of using the toothbrush (cleaning pipes, maybe?).

It also makes a nice ink splatter...

___________________
Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex It's not the toothbrush controlling you. You are the one willingly submitting to the intended purpose of the toothbrush. It's not a bad thing; you need to brush your teeth after all. The point is, there are other ways of using the toothbrush (cleaning pipes, maybe?).

I think part of the problem there is the use of the term slave, which generally (at least for me) makes someone think of being forced. If i choose to brush my teeth with it I am submitting to its intended use yes, but if i choose to tap out a beat with it while I gargle my listerine then im not exactly being revolutionary (or am I?, wicked!). Im just preforming a human act, creating a new tool. If computers make music in the future by using on algorithms and computers to produce sound (Again what i think your arguing here) then thats simply another instrument. Are you suggesting the method used to control the instrument will change, because that again isnt quiet revolutionary.

On a side note to nefardec that topic name really annoys me. If your intending to mislead people into reading your post thats pretty bothersome. If they dont care about the topic its not your duty to try and trick them into reading it. Additionally i have to agree with skip that i feel youve somewhat littered you dicussion with fancy words in a attempt to make the topic seem more complicated then it needs to be. Im assuming you didnt plan this post days in advance, and this use of words only leads to complicate the discussion uneccesrily.

Agree with above ^^ and skip etc. The whole thing is pretentious, not to the point and filled with totally arbitrary conclusions. It seems like there always has to be someone who has to disagree or somehow have a diverse stance just for the sake of it, throwing around words inappropriate in the context and various utter nonsense.