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Originally posted by cenik Anyways, anybody who is actually serious about looking into these issues and not interested in simply making uninformed, knee-jerk type comments ought to look into what authors like Pereboom, Ayer, Davidson, Chisholm, Frankfurt, Williams, and Van Inwagen suggest.

I, too, am NOT debating, but.....
With all do respect, I personally don't view their opinions more highly just because they are the "leading thinkers" and a course in the curriculum teaches this.

This is a topic which can NEVER be proven 100% scientifically, which is what everyone requires.
If anything, its only speculation, similar to those "experts" on dream interpretation.
Simply impossible to prove, so its just "experts" that feed us their ideas, which ONLY serves for their personal historical significance.

Obviously, this is just my opinion.

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Originally posted by _EuG_ God doesn’t exist; religion is just a fairy tail that is told to keep people in order. Let the flaming and arguing begin!!!!

Even better....the bible is just a book of short stories created to entertain people.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by Spike nO and its all bs stupid girls tell each other to comfort themselves when stuff goes wrong in their lives.

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Originally posted by cenik and not interested in simply making uninformed, knee-jerk type comments ought to look into ...

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Originally posted by Provocative_boi We surely are free in our actions and are, therefore, accountable for them. God only provides guidance for us to know what is good and what is bad. He says, "We created man of a water-drop...Surely We guided him to the right way--now whether he (follows it and) be grateful or (goes astray and) be ungrateful is up to him." (Qur'an: chp. 76, verse 3).

Totally agree

Everyday we all have opportunities to change our life path. Some people say that this is called destiny. However, it is the choices that we make that determine our path in life. Whether we explore the unknown, expand our minds and go on new adventures is something that we all control. Thinking that an outside force has control over ourselves is a self-defeatist way of thinking.

I would say no. You make your own destiny.

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Shut up and DANCE!!
House moves my body, Trance owns my soul, Progressive drives me wild

My belief is this - I think some things/situations/events do happen for a reason - all those things we brush off as merely an unlikely coincidence really aren't, and that there is a force that governs these situations/"coincidences". That said, I believe humans do have complete free will. Whatever force that governs a car crashing, and flipping over, sliding across the intersection to stop an inch in front of you has no control over how you react to what happened. I dunno if i'm making myself clear, but basically, this force has no control over us, it only has control over our environment. So we do make our own path, but this path is determined partly by the events that happen to us, and partly by how we react to the events that happen to us (and how we react is totally up to us).

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I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

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Originally posted by trance-ultima

came more from my gut than my knee i'd say

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"The only monster here is the gambling monster that has enslaved your mother! I call him Gamblor, and it's time to snatch your mother from his neon claws!" - homer

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Originally posted by Spike came more from my gut than my knee i'd say

LOOOOL
then i guess it makes it ok

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur (and how we react is totally up to us).

I disagree with this... it IS up to us in the sense that our reaction is processed through our mind... but there's only one way you will ever react to any situation you're in. the only way things could happen different in that car crash for example, are if things like your experiences up to that point, mood, physical state, etc. were different. if you went back in time and things were 100% the same, your very real brain would be subjected to the same stimuli and you'd end up making the same decision. the same goes if you went back another five minutes in time at the point you decided to take the particular road, that was the best and only decision you would have made at the time. and since there is no way to go back and change your state of mind or have more knowledge, that means we are falling through one path, a predetermined matrix along with everything else in nature that started with the big bang.

it's only called 'predetermined' because if someone or something was omniscient enough to see every reaction going on in your body and all social and natural factors that would affect your life at all times, they would be able to tell you exactly where you'll be at any point in life.

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Originally posted by DaRoZa I disagree with this... it IS up to us in the sense that our reaction is processed through our mind... but there's only one way you will ever react to any situation you're in. the only way things could happen different in that car crash for example, are if things like your experiences up to that point, mood, physical state, etc. were different. if you went back in time and things were 100% the same, your very real brain would be subjected to the same stimuli and you'd end up making the same decision. the same goes if you went back another five minutes in time at the point you decided to take the particular road, that was the best and only decision you would have made at the time. and since there is no way to go back and change your state of mind or have more knowledge, that means we are falling through one path, a predetermined matrix along with everything else in nature that started with the big bang. it's only called 'predetermined' because if someone or something was omniscient enough to see every reaction going on in your body and all social and natural factors that would affect your life at all times, they would be able to tell you exactly where you'll be at any point in life.

I disagree with you. You're arguing with the assumption that if we go back in time, we'll make the exact same choices as before. That's a pretty big if, and an even bigger assumption.

Obviously I have no proof of otherwise, but my idea is that if you ask the same person to name 5 random numbers in two sessions while trying to keep the two sessions as identical as possible, the person will not name the same 5 numbers. Obviously a lot of things will be out of our control and thus the environments will not be the exact same, but until we figure out a way to go back in time and test this, this is the best we're able to do.

Again, you can't use any sort of scientific proof to prove this because at this moment in time we are not able to prove this one way or the other. Only thing we can do is state our beliefs and hope that they are true. I don't like the idea that all my choices have been pre-made - to me, if that were true, life loses all meaning, and I might as well kill myself now cause I would have done it anyway.

P.S. If your theory is true, and humans ever invent a time machine, humanity will cease to exist, as everyone will realise their life has already been mapped out, and you will see a strong decline in the will of people to do ANYTHING.

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I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

This is one of the best books I have ever read, and it's right on topic. Anyone else read it? puts life in perspective, your relationships and everything that occurs in your life.

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Short time TA, Long time Guver, Good time giver.

Last edited by Abercrombie on Apr-05-2007 at 18:05