Hmm.. I understand.

I just choose not to believe it, no offense. I believe in the multiverse!

It looks like this

look at all of those universes. Yes, those are red blood cells... But think about it.

think about it

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quote:

Originally posted by ResonantDrag i think someone had one too many sips from the punchbowl

You've never heard of the multi-verse?

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Pope disagrees with Darwin? Well ... religion likes to disagree with science a lot. It wasnt that long ago when religion told us that dinosaurs and all other creatures were once herded together with humans into the arc, that the Earth was the center of the universe and that Sun spun around it, etc.

Quite frankly the science is proving more and more of the religions' bullshit. Science has exposed the criminality and lies of organized religion. Our science has not advanced to the fullest, so we cannot explain everything right now. Give it time and eventually we will find answers. But religion has no evidence, and uses ignorant ways of proving itself, additionally the use denial, manipulation of information and disagreeing with 200 year-old scientific theories that have long ago been updated is a cheap way to fight it. These same religious addicts who claim they are such are piss poor hypocrites because they openly accept, use everyday the same technologies and knowledge that was based on science and Darwinian ideas. Oh well, its their lives, they can live in ignorance alll they want. Scientists dont go around calling for holy wars, killing in the name of questionable dieties, manipulate information, etc. Its religion that is using violence and manipulation to stay alive, as it has through history - the history is written in blood with religion ... so many innocent people died throughout history from religious persecution. Vs. the scientists.

So I dont believe anything that comes out of Pope's mouth. He can deny it all he wants.

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quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Pope disagrees with Darwin? Well ... religion likes to disagree with science a lot. It wasnt that long ago when religion told us that dinosaurs and all other creatures were once herded together with humans into the arc, that the Earth was the center of the universe and that Sun spun around it, etc. So I dont believe anything that comes out of Pope's mouth. He can deny it all he wants.

I don't think he said he disagrees with all of Darwin's theories or Evolution. I think what he disagrees with is that the process is random or chance based. He disagrees with some aspects of Natural Selection and Survival of the Fittest, and i've talked with priests and a franscian monk who did as well, but weren't anti-science or anti-evolution). I think what he means to say (and I don't speak for the pope, i'm Catholic by the religion I have been raised with, but not exactly theologically or philosophically what I believe) is that there has to be (in his view) a process at work, guiding evolution. I think the article, and other articles about the pope's views, says he doesn't endorse ID or Biblical Creationism (since much of the Catholic church nowadays takes bibical stories as metaphors not as literal stories) he just believes that somewhere, within Evolution, that there should be a place for God. So I would agree, he's not the biggest fan of science, but I wouldn't consider him anti-science either, like some of these Evangelical or Fundamentalist Christians who flatly deny Evolution and endorse Creationism or ID.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 I don't think he said he disagrees with all of Darwin's theories or Evolution. I think what he disagrees with is that the process is random or chance based.

I think it is very clear that our universe is not random at all. Watch "What We Still Don't Know" and it explains how patterns in evolution prove that nothing is random in the universe at all.

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quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I think the article, and other articles about the pope's views, says he doesn't endorse ID or Biblical Creationism (since much of the Catholic church nowadays takes bibical stories as metaphors not as literal stories) he just believes that somewhere, within Evolution, that there should be a place for God.

That really comes down to the Catholic church having gained something that most of the people who currently follow 'fundamentalist' doctrine cannot have due to the relatively short history of their theological doctrines: perspective.

The Vatican has made a concious decision to stop trying every scientist who observes and documents phenomenon that run contrary to literal translation of church doctrine as heretics. The church still feels the pain of being embarrassed by history when 'heretics' like Copurnicus and Gallileo have been proven correct and the church proven wrong.

The Catholic church is considerably more pragmatic when it comes to dealing with an increasingly more intellectually and scientificially advanced culture than some of their "younger brethren" in the evangelical protestant churches.


MrS

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quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers I think it is very clear that our universe is not random at all. Watch "What We Still Don't Know" and it explains how patterns in evolution prove that nothing is random in the universe at all.

I don't think it's random either. There are elements of determinism within the universe and within reality. A universe of randomness and chance would be a universe of free-will, which IMO would be chaos, so there has to be something controlling it. There has to be something guiding Evolution IMO. I'm a believer in a combination of Evolution and ID (which would be more like the idea of panentheism with elements of monism). I believe that the process of Evolution is guided by some type of force (some call it God, but IMO, it's more like an energy force than some man in the sky or father-mother figure). Evolution is the process that almost everything in the universe is guided by. The Universe in and of itself, is evolving. It's like an organism, whose heart and brain is this force (which is evident in such things as Gravity, Atoms, Matter and Relativity, "strings" in string theory could be evidence of this force, if they were proven to be real).

I believe in the multi-verse idea as well. Many universes or branes in one huge membrane or I guess you could call it a "void" or a "matrix" of sorts. It's a bunch of these living "universes" all together in rows and columns (that do collide with each other, they aren't all stable) in one large void of sorts. What exists outside of this, is beyond me...probably other membranes, and then completely different space-time sequences, or other verses or dream worlds/planes of existence (immaterial worlds made up of thoughts and dreams consciousnesses/souls...places we go to when we die perhaps). I'm just throwing things out there that I believe, that cannot all exactly be proven. I'm just a theorist/philosopher/dreamer/thinker whatever. I don't purport to know the truth, just what I personally believe. It's bound to change as I grow older and more educated about religion, science and philosophy.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Apr-14-2007 at 03:48

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers I think it is very clear that our universe is not random at all. Watch "What We Still Don't Know" and it explains how patterns in evolution prove that nothing is random in the universe at all.

It's not truly random because evolution is always dependent with the step that came before it. If there is a casual relationship between past and present than it can never be truly random can it?

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by Krypton He is referring to the questions science cannot answer. What happened before the Big Bang? What is outside of our universe? Are there other realms of existence? Where does our universe comes from? Science is limited to our space-time universe.

the same thing that happened "before" god.
nothing. the endless doesn't have an 'outside'.
depends on how you define a realm of existence.
our universe comes from the same thing god comes from.

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when you people say Religion, why not just say Christianity? other religions aren't this dogmatic, take Buddhism, Zen, Hinduism, Shamanism, Sufism for example. these are all open minded religions that view science as necessary to explore the physical world, but they view it that there is more to this world and to explore that aspect we turn to 'religion', not the worshipping of a god but the gaining of insight about the universe through experience, not a book. you do this through meditation and exploration. if you read gnostic gospels, early christian teachings, you'll see that jesus taught much different values then what is now considered christianity. "god is not in the heavens, but inside every one of us", it's really too bad that all these morons give jesus a bad name.

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