quote:

Originally posted by spiflicated I wouldn't be so quick to begin name-calling. The specific bill had to do with Washington, D.C. - a federally controlled, regulated, and funded district, and not the federal government providing funds for a state.

Still, he does not oppose gay adoption which was your original statement.

quote:

Originally posted by spiflicated He also doesn't believe that the federal government should define marriage; however, in the collection of federal income taxes, customs documents, and the recognition of international marriages the federal government must define who is and is not married. Dr. Paul may be trying to side-step the issue, but he is clearly a homophobe.

No idea why you are just so casually throwing around such a horrendous statement "homophobe." I agree with his stance that the gov't should have no role in marriage (makes constitutional sense) and actually he is for the disposal of the income tax and is an isolationist so that takes care or recognizing those pesky marriages. The point was a shoddy one anyways. If you knew anything about Paul you would know he doesn't side step issues. Did you even see the msnbc debate?

quote:

Originally posted by spiflicated When I stated that the majority of people disagreed with Dr. Paul, I obviously conceded that there are some that must agree with him. The majority of Americans agree that the reach of the federal government goes beyond Dr. Paul's short-sighted view of the rights and responsibilities of our federal government. [QUOTE]Originally posted by spiflicated Hmmmmm, nice try. Although the words may seem to appease your sense of fairness, the group prayers in public schools are still coercive and has negative impact on those that do not participate, see below

Yet, this is a reflection period, not a prayer period, which Paul has been clear to state. It is up to the students and teachers collectively to decide how that time is spent, and a student cannot be punished for not praying.

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Lost Souls

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Still, he does not oppose gay adoption which was your original statement.

The point is that he specifically voted YES on an amendment to exclude allowing funding to support adoption by gay people (the bill in question provides general funds in DC to support adoption). This is specifically hateful legislation. My point is that he cannot hide behind his usual rhetoric because this is specifically for DC which must have funds appropriated by Congress.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings No idea why you are just so casually throwing around such a horrendous statement "homophobe." I agree with his stance that the gov't should have no role in marriage (makes constitutional sense) and actually he is for the disposal of the income tax and is an isolationist so that takes care or recognizing those pesky marriages. The point was a shoddy one anyways. If you knew anything about Paul you would know he doesn't side step issues. Did you even see the msnbc debate?

Are you insane? Ummmmm, let me see... so are we going to let individual states determine the immigration quotas for the nation. No. Grow a brain, the federal government must and does define marriage.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Yet, this is a reflection period, not a prayer period, which Paul has been clear to state. It is up to the students and teachers collectively to decide how that time is spent, and a student cannot be punished for not praying.

Did you miss the point entirely - a child should not have to feel isolated or harassed by their peers for not participating in or objecting to having religion forced upon them.

Frankly Im getting tired of this battle for last words.

He is not a homophobe. He simply believes marriage is in the jurisdiction of religion (but I believe recognizes the importance of recognizing marriage for gov't purposes) at which point it should be a state rather than a federal issue.

You could call him a racist too, as he has called for an end to affirmative action at schools.

Fact of the matter is, while this debate has led me to learn even more about Paul, I don't feel either of our opinions are swaying and this is no longer productive.

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Lost Souls

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Fact of the matter is, while this debate has led me to learn even more about Paul, I don't feel either of our opinions are swaying and this is no longer productive.

Clearly... truce. You vote for him and I'll vote for the Democrat that wins the next election.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Frankly Im getting tired of this battle for last words.

Yeah, it's even more annoying when people are putting words in your mouth due to their insecurities.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings He is not a homophobe.

I don't think many people understand true American political conservatism or libertarian views anymore. You're wasting your time here, but I don't need to tell you that at this point.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by spiflicated Clearly... truce. You vote for him and I'll vote for the Democrat that wins the next election.

I really don't mean to stir the pot again, but I really think this embodies a lot of what's wrong with the political system today. I'm no idiot, I know Ron Paul doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, but nevertheless the options for someone of a libertarian leaning such as myself really doesn't have any other choice. People say all the time, 'don't waste your vote. choose the lesser of two evils.' Exactly why sham of a system we have in place no exists.

Whether I vote Democratic or Republican, I will be facing big government. I would honestly move to another country if they had a more libertarian government (and stable), but to my knowledge one doesn't exist. So, all I can do is bitch on a dance music forum.

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Lost Souls

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings I really don't mean to stir the pot again, but I really think this embodies a lot of what's wrong with the political system today. I'm no idiot, I know Ron Paul doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, but nevertheless the options for someone of a libertarian leaning such as myself really doesn't have any other choice. People say all the time, 'don't waste your vote. choose the lesser of two evils.' Exactly why sham of a system we have in place no exists. Whether I vote Democratic or Republican, I will be facing big government. I would honestly move to another country if they had a more libertarian government (and stable), but to my knowledge one doesn't exist. So, all I can do is bitch on a dance music forum.

There is an entire libertarian party that is on the ballot in all 50 states every election cycle.

Ron Paul is, according to what he would tell you, a libertarian who is running as a Republican. I don't know if he really is a libertarian or just gives it lip service, nor do I care.

But to say that he is the 'only option' as you are insinuating is just not true and is a disservice to the thousands of people who have pushed for alternatives to the 2 major parties for decades.


MrS

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-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by spiflicated And he voted YES on banning gay adoptions. Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm While all these people are trumpeting this guy as a defender of the Constitution, he also supports a constitutional amendment for school prayer. Shaolin_Z can be assured that he isn't for Muslim prayer in the schools, though. I'm very happy that he doesn't even have the smallest possibility of being elected.

Gay issues are not my concern and it's only a minor issue overall. Having said that , gay unions are ok for all the regular rights , having gay adoptions is not ok since in my opinion gays do not seek each other for having off spring and they would do it mostly to sort of fit in without regards for a child.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Frankly Im getting tired of this battle for last words.

No, you are getting tired because spiflicated is winning the conversation.

quote:

He is not a homophobe. He simply believes marriage is in the jurisdiction of religion (but I believe recognizes the importance of recognizing marriage for gov't purposes) at which point it should be a state rather than a federal issue.

He is opposed to gay marriage. He says so himself. He's just not for a constituional amendment opposing gay marriage (and for that I give him a slightly less disrespect).

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quote:

Originally posted by erdega having gay adoptions is not ok since in my opinion gays do not seek each other for having off spring and they would do it mostly to sort of fit in without regards for a child.

According to your argument, heterosexual couples who are physically incapable of have babies should also not be allowed to adopt. Also, women who are not willing to get pregnant obviously should not adopt either since they didn't seek husbands for the purposes of getting pregnant.

Realistically, if any TWO people anywhere in the world decide that they should adopt a child, I don't think that their sexual preference, or lack of ability to produce a child, is correlated in any sense to their capability of raising a child.

Do you think gays are just sitting around in their giant houses saying "Hey buffy, I'm bored. Let's go out and purchase a child. It'll be our new dog."? Just because they can't biologically produce a child, it doesn't mean that their brains are turned off to child rearing. It's like you're saying, "Hey this man is blind, so I bet he wants to masturbate like everyone else but pfffffft I don't think he should because he's just trying to fit in."

But yeah, you are full of insight. When I marry a guy and want children, I'll think of what you said and tell him, "Gee, I married you for all the non-children rearing reasons because two dudes can't make babies. Therefore I think it'll be wrong to adopt a child that some stupid straight teenage bitch abandoned because she was a careless super slut. Praise her for being straight. I wish I was like her."

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quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd that's what people said in 2004. And even after Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 and Falluja and the whole fiasco in Iraq, people still re-elected Bush. Now of course, speaking as you are from "New Joizey" you might consider this unthinkable, but there is one post in this thread which you probably missed. Let me recap: America is a center-RIGHT nation as a whole. It leans right of center.

mmm yes yes.

but that was in 2004, times have changed. Bush has a 28% approval rating, and has tarnished the Republican image much more since 2004 then prior. I don't know, maybe i'm wrong. It just seems that people are starting to realize how much of a shit the current Republican party is, or maybe it's just me

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this is it.

LOL, no wonder he was discluded from the poll earlier:

Who stood out from the pack? * 70251 responses
Sam Brownback
2.2%
Jim Gilmore
1.2%
Rudy Giuliani
14%
Mike Huckabee
3.2%
Duncan Hunter
1.6%
John McCain
6.8%
Ron Paul
45%
Mitt Romney
20%
Tom Tancredo
2.5%
Tommy Thompson
3%
Who showed the most leadership qualities? * 69380 responses
Sam Brownback
2.1%
Jim Gilmore
1.6%
Rudy Giuliani
15%
Mike Huckabee
3.2%
Duncan Hunter
1.9%
John McCain
11%
Ron Paul
41%
Mitt Romney
19%
Tom Tancredo
2.4%
Tommy Thompson
3.2%
Who was the most convincing candidate? * 69150 responses
Sam Brownback
2.6%
Jim Gilmore
1.6%
Rudy Giuliani
13%
Mike Huckabee
3.9%
Duncan Hunter
1.9%
John McCain
8.6%
Ron Paul
44%
Mitt Romney
18%
Tom Tancredo
2.7%
Tommy Thompson
3.3%
Who had the most rehearsed answers? * 67666 responses
Sam Brownback
3.9%
Jim Gilmore
1.6%
Rudy Giuliani
24%
Mike Huckabee
2.3%
Duncan Hunter
1.6%
John McCain
31%
Ron Paul
7.6%
Mitt Romney
23%
Tom Tancredo
2.1%
Tommy Thompson
3.8%
Who avoided the questions? * 65982 responses
Sam Brownback
5.5%
Jim Gilmore
2.9%
Rudy Giuliani
39%
Mike Huckabee
3.1%
Duncan Hunter
2.8%
John McCain
18%
Ron Paul
6.8%
Mitt Romney
13%
Tom Tancredo
3.8%
Tommy Thompson
5.4%
Who had the best one-liner? * 65753 responses
Sam Brownback
3.1%
Jim Gilmore
1.6%
Rudy Giuliani
12%
Mike Huckabee
6.6%
Duncan Hunter
2.2%
John McCain
13%
Ron Paul
38%
Mitt Romney
15%
Tom Tancredo
4%
Tommy Thompson
5%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18436681/

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller