Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Russia blames US in missile row
Pages (5): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
star-traveller
Kill All Humans



Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL

quote:
Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Well..if anything, this thread has proved that Russians always fight with each other


Yeah that's right.

Old Post Jun-06-2007 10:59  Europe
Click Here to See the Profile for star-traveller Click here to Send star-traveller a Private Message Add star-traveller to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
metalgearsolid
I am a sexist



Registered: Apr 2005
Location: For you neo/

Wait, Mags! Why do you defend Russia all the time? If you lived there you wouldn't have a computer you wouldn't have any opportunity to make a decent living. Be thankful you got out of that sh!t hole. Really the people their are poor and that is not meant to be offensive.

Old Post Jun-06-2007 12:17 
Click Here to See the Profile for metalgearsolid Click here to Send metalgearsolid a Private Message Visit metalgearsolid's homepage! Add metalgearsolid to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Wait, Mags! Why do you defend Russia all the time? If you lived there you wouldn't have a computer you wouldn't have any opportunity to make a decent living. Be thankful you got out of that sh!t hole. Really the people their are poor and that is not meant to be offensive.


Things are getting better. I must say it was pretty bad in Russia in 1990s. Ever since Putin came to power, the people I know there have been getting on with their lives. I can't be negative and anti-government all the time. Attitude like that is bringing Russia down. For example, many thousands of Russians are idiots and drink themselves to death every year. Demographical issue is a very important one - but it all begins with the ordinary citizen. The government has opened up the programs and offered money to solve the issue. Now its time for the Russian people to open their eyes, stand up and show that Russia can go from a devastated country into a stable happy democracy in only a few decades. I believe.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jun-06-2007 13:51  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Magnetonium Click here to Send Magnetonium a Private Message Visit Magnetonium's homepage! Add Magnetonium to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



Quite frankly, the westerners will always blame Russia for violating democracy, human rights, etc. as long as Russia will pose any threat to them economically, militarily or politically. I've seen it myself. How come noone blamed Yeltsin all the time for countless violations like the brutal war in Chechnya, the appalling corruption and mismanagement of the country? The answer: the West was happy that Russia was degrading, happy that western companies had easy access to Russia's resources and cheap, Russia was weak. Human rights and Russia's well-being ... well, who give a flying funk about that then? Now, however, Russia has restored the stability, improved the economy, raised standards of living, rebuilding the country, trying to enter the western markets, trying to join the democratic community - but ALL THAT IT GETS is mostly the brunt of criticism, hate, double standards, mistrust, and lack of co-operation. Even Chinese companies have much easier access to European markets for Christ's sake.

This illustrates again that the West hates Russia. Russians like me want the West to accept them and let them join NATO, EU, WTO, etc - but that can never happen because some countries *cough* are blocking it from happening. Putin sees it. He was quiet about it for the first 5 years of his presidency, kept trying to appeal to the West and companies, but now that he sees that all that was in vain, he started making more speeches criticising US, EU and putting more restrictions on violating companies within Russia because he saw what I saw - an out-of-control West trying to step all over Russia, with complete disregard to the interests and well-being of the Russian people. Putin is no idiot - he sees the cold relations and how USA, NATO and its former neighbours are talking about them. And then he sees the planned bases, missile silos, etc. in those nations. He's no idiot - he knows that its more like they'll be directed against Russia, especially for the time being since Iran's threat is a joke because Iranian nuclear weapons program is light years away. Its an excuse to take over Russia's resources by setting up bases and armies all around it and striking a blow when they least expect it. Just listen to all the anti-Russian rhetoric - heck, its in style to hate Russia all of a sudden, everyone already forgot about Iraq and Afghanistan and NATO. Damn hypocrites.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Last edited by Magnetonium on Jun-06-2007 at 14:07

Old Post Jun-06-2007 13:56  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Magnetonium Click here to Send Magnetonium a Private Message Visit Magnetonium's homepage! Add Magnetonium to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
emc^2
FCK MNML



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: 255.255.255.255

Magnetonium, you're naive and I have nothing but pity for you and your disillusioned views. Good luck.

p.s. Íàäåæäà óìèðàåò ïîñëåäíåé.


___________________
quote:
No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

Old Post Jun-06-2007 19:34 
Click Here to See the Profile for emc^2 Click here to Send emc^2 a Private Message Add emc^2 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by emc^2
Magnetonium, you're naive and I have nothing but pity for you and your disillusioned views. Good luck.

p.s. Íàäåæäà óìèðàåò ïîñëåäíåé.


Is that all you got to say? Thats your whole argument? Yes, hope dies last. I see progress, I see improvement. I KNOW for a fact that things in Russia are not peachy, not a paradise but gimme a break things are much better in Russia today that before. On most levels. There are simply no other leaders in Russia right now who could steer the country into a better future. The leaders that you cheer for, they are only serving the Western interests. And with that to my mind come Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Under two those retards Russia and Russian people lived under appalling misery, suffering and complete ignorance. Who rebuilt Russian economy? Who got the country back together? Who raised the standards of living? etc. etc. etc. PUTIN DID. Putin has done more good stuff for Russian people than hopeless regimes of Gorbachev and Yeltsin combined. Ask any Russian. At least 70% of them will agree without a doubt. But there's more work to be done.

You are the one who is disillusioned. I see the light, the progress, the improvement in Russia. All you see is not good. You are just piss scared of Russia and want Russian people underfoot. You dont understand the situation. You dont care about those people, you only care about how your western companies and other entities can make easy money off Russia and keep the country down. Cause Yeltsin and Gorbachev were pretty dam good at that.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jun-07-2007 00:06  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Magnetonium Click here to Send Magnetonium a Private Message Visit Magnetonium's homepage! Add Magnetonium to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
metalgearsolid
I am a sexist



Registered: Apr 2005
Location: For you neo/

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Is that all you got to say? Thats your whole argument? Yes, hope dies last. I see progress, I see improvement. I KNOW for a fact that things in Russia are not peachy, not a paradise but gimme a break things are much better in Russia today that before. On most levels. There are simply no other leaders in Russia right now who could steer the country into a better future. The leaders that you cheer for, they are only serving the Western interests. And with that to my mind come Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Under two those retards Russia and Russian people lived under appalling misery, suffering and complete ignorance. Who rebuilt Russian economy? Who got the country back together? Who raised the standards of living? etc. etc. etc. PUTIN DID. Putin has done more good stuff for Russian people than hopeless regimes of Gorbachev and Yeltsin combined. Ask any Russian. At least 70% of them will agree without a doubt. But there's more work to be done.

You are the one who is disillusioned. I see the light, the progress, the improvement in Russia. All you see is not good. You are just piss scared of Russia and want Russian people underfoot. You dont understand the situation. You dont care about those people, you only care about how your western companies and other entities can make easy money off Russia and keep the country down. Cause Yeltsin and Gorbachev were pretty dam good at that.

Putin hasn't raised the standard of living. Check the HDI for year. Russia HAS BEEN GOING DOWN UNDER PUTIN for the past couple of years. and trust me there is nothing good to see outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg. No leader can make Russia into a peachy paradise.

And what the hell is with the whole western crap? I mean come on. You live in the west and if you didn't. You would be dirt poor like most Russians'. You wouldn't have a computer and you wouldn't even have heating(modern) in your home. Nobody cares about Russia. I don't see whose holding it down other than the Russians. The Russians just like to blame the west for their pathetic existance.

Old Post Jun-07-2007 01:26 
Click Here to See the Profile for metalgearsolid Click here to Send metalgearsolid a Private Message Visit metalgearsolid's homepage! Add metalgearsolid to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
emc^2
FCK MNML



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: 255.255.255.255

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Is that all you got to say?


I really have no desire nor time I want to waste on a pointless web arguments with someone as dull and bone-headed as you. Suffice to say that time I already invested in this argument has been wasted and cannot be re-claimed. You can keep on practicing your typing skills, I'm done trying to make you look like a jackass - you're doing a fine job on your own.

And just in case you decide to post some other rambling bullshit, here's your cookie in advance:


___________________
quote:
No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

Old Post Jun-07-2007 03:32 
Click Here to See the Profile for emc^2 Click here to Send emc^2 a Private Message Add emc^2 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Putin hasn't raised the standard of living. Check the HDI for year. Russia HAS BEEN GOING DOWN UNDER PUTIN for the past couple of years. and trust me there is nothing good to see outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg. No leader can make Russia into a peachy paradise.

And what the hell is with the whole western crap? I mean come on. You live in the west and if you didn't. You would be dirt poor like most Russians'. You wouldn't have a computer and you wouldn't even have heating(modern) in your home. Nobody cares about Russia. I don't see whose holding it down other than the Russians. The Russians just like to blame the west for their pathetic existance.


I dont blame the West for Russia's problems. I criticize the West for not understanding the situation in Russia and their obvious double standards, greed and ignorance when it comes to Russia. Thats all. How would you know if I would have had a computer or not in Russia? There are millions of people in Russia with personal computers or access to internet. And Russians for most part do have pretty dam good heating (though not very good, older system for most part) because if they didnt have it they would have frozen to death by now. Thats not the issue, my friend.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jun-07-2007 03:50  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Magnetonium Click here to Send Magnetonium a Private Message Visit Magnetonium's homepage! Add Magnetonium to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Zild
Ten City



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio, US : TXTA #156

Eh so maybe we will finally get into a real war. Humans have overstayed their welcome anyway.


___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix

Old Post Jun-07-2007 09:24  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Zild Click here to Send Zild a Private Message Add Zild to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Zild
Eh so maybe we will finally get into a real war. Humans have overstayed their welcome anyway.


I think that if US continues to place these bases around Russia, continues to try to interfere in Russian politics, one day Russia will unleash an attack on USA. What US is doing is without consultation with Russians. America refuses to allow Russia into NATO, into this missile shield. So therefore, Russia is an enemy. And Russia should take all neccessary measures to protect its resources, its people, its borders. Thats why Russia is developing and successfully testing new missiles that will breach any missile defense shields out there, and why shouldn't it? Strategic forces is today's most vital, most critical and most important army in Russia. And it badly needs to be upgraded because Americans have demonstrated with their Star Wars testing that they can shoot down at least some of these older missiles that fly straight (heck, how hard is it to calculate the path????)


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jun-07-2007 22:32  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Magnetonium Click here to Send Magnetonium a Private Message Visit Magnetonium's homepage! Add Magnetonium to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

I haven't kept up too much on this topic, but from what appears to have come out of the meeting yesterday, Putin apparently outflanked the shit out of Bush:

quote:
Putin offers radar site in Azerbaijan

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent Thu Jun 7, 7:18 PM ET

ROSTOCK, Germany -
Vladimir Putin, bitterly opposed to a U.S. missile shield in Europe, presented President Bush with a surprise counterproposal Thursday built around a Soviet-era radar system in Azerbaijan rather than new defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic. Bush said it was an interesting suggestion and promised to consider it.

Putin's formula would force a major rethinking of U.S. plans for defending Europe against attack from hostile regimes such as
Iran or North Korea. While outright acceptance of Putin's idea appeared doubtful, the White House seemed eager to avoid further inflaming tensions by giving it short shrift.

The Russian president said he would abandon his threat to retarget missiles on Europe — if Bush accepted the Kremlin's missile-defense proposal."This is a serious issue and we want to make sure that we all understand each other's positions very clearly," Bush said after an hour-long meeting with Putin. Speaking through a translator, Putin said he was "satisfied with the spirit of openness" from Bush.

With U.S.-Russian relations at a post-Cold War low, the two leaders sought a fresh start on the sidelines of the annual summit of industrialized nations. Tensions were raised in recent days by Bush's accusations that Putin was backsliding on democracy, and by Putin's charges that Bush was starting a new arms race with missile defenses.

At the summit, Bush and Putin joined other world leaders in a compromise on a plan to attack global warming. They agreed to seek substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions but stopped short of committing themselves to specific targets, apparently because of U.S. opposition.

U.S. officials scrambled to react to Putin's proposal, huddling hurriedly before trying to explain it to the press. If nothing else, the Russian president captured global attention with a move that appeared intended to calm jitters in Europe. Even if the White House eventually rejects his idea, Putin can claim he made a stab at compromise and can blame Bush for any adverse consequences.

While they tried to present a cordial picture, Bush and Putin could not even agree on their differences. Bush said Putin "is concerned that the missile defense system is not an act that a friend would do." Putin made a point of correcting Bush. "I have not said that friends do not act in this way," the Russian leader said.

The main point of contention is a U.S. anti-missile program that envisions a radar screen in the Czech Republic to detect incoming rockets and 10 interceptors based in Poland to shoot them down.

Unhappy about
NATO's expansion to Russia's border, the Kremlin is suspicious about the U.S. putting rockets in former Soviet republics.

Putin warned Bush not to proceed with building the system as planned while negotiations with Moscow take place.

"We hope these consultations will not serve as cover for some unilateral action," Putin said. The two presidents will meet again July 1-2 at the Bush family compound in Kennebunkport, Maine.

Putin's counterproposal would use an aging radar installation at Gabala in northern Azerbaijan, a central Asian country bordering the Caspian Sea, to watch for missile threats.

Rather than build interceptor rockets in Poland, Putin suggested using missiles on U.S. Aegis cruisers to shoot down any threat, according to Steve Hadley, Bush's national security adviser.

Hadley said Putin took the position that the deployment of interceptors was premature, that the weapons they would be designed to destroy have not emerged.

"So, his (Putin's) view is, radar cooperation is fine; the decision about deploying interceptors is premature," Hadley said. "And once these capabilities emerge in Iran or any other state, there will be time to develop and deploy interceptors."

Hadley expressed skepticism about that approach. "Our concern, of course, is that in order to have defensive systems in place, it takes time," he said. "These are long lead-time items, and it would take time to get them deployed."

Further, he said "we've been surprised many times" that countries have built long-range missiles faster than the U.S. intelligence community expected.

Rick Lehner, a spokesman for the
Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency, noted that the radar at the Russian facility is an early warning system whereas the U.S. is using a more powerful system, called X-band.

Putin told Bush he had talked about his proposal with Azerbaijan's president, Ilham Aliev, and that he was amenable to the idea, Hadley said.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, "This offer shows once again that President Putin is ready to find consensus and he's ready to find solutions, not by confronting, not by threatening anyone — well, he's never done that, actually — but by working together."

Hadley said, "I think President Putin wanted to de-escalate the tensions a little bit on this issue, and I think it was a useful thing that he did."

Azerbaijan has exchanged opinions on missile defense in talks with Russia and the United States, and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov discussed the issue with his Azerbaijani counterpart Elmar Mammadyarov during an official visit to Baku last week, Azerbaijani Deputy Foreign Minister Araz Azimov said, according to Russia's RIA-Novosti news agency.

Rasim Musabeyov, an independent political analyst in Azerbaijan, said U.S. involvement would anger Iran and strain Azerbaijan's relations with Tehran, but added that support from Washington and Moscow could counterbalance that effect.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_re_eu/bush


I think Putin did more than de-escalate the tensions - Putin outmaneuvered the White House, BAD. Don't get me wrong, the guy's no saint, and he's got a lovely laundry list of objectionable actions over the years. But this move clearly puts Bush's in a situation where he will either have to abandon his plan altogether or explicitly admit that his goal was not what he originally stated (defending against the nonexistent missile threat from Iran).


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Jun-08-2007 14:14  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for MisterOpus1 Click here to Send MisterOpus1 a Private Message Add MisterOpus1 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Russia blames US in missile row
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (5): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackunknown house tune (PvD played) [2004] [1]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackallure- the love we lost [2005]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:58.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!