Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Since the The SurgeŽ has failed, operation Arm the Insurgency and Baathists has begun
Pages (5): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

the final Brigade has arrived...the "surge" is on like Donkey Kong.

Old Post Jun-19-2007 08:36  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Q5echo Click here to Send Q5echo a Private Message Add Q5echo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Please, guide me in life.


Right so take care to not ask stupid questions that are answered by the original article/post unless you expect pedantic responses.


quote:

I'm talking about your stated point that Iraqi's fighting for themselves would entail them joining the national security forces. Tell me the negatives if we continued to fight these insurgent groups who are really nationalist in ideology, different from al-qaida? You seem to want them to fail either way.


Oh jesus christ what are you talking about? Do you realise that there is an established government of Iraq that we're tryingt o support? Do you realise that we're trying to support a unified government/police/army in Iraq against an insurgency? Do you realise that the group that we're supplying arms to is outside of this government?? More to the point, do you not understand that the groups that we are arming have NO QUALMS about attacking US troops or the established Iraqi government? What about this seems like a good idea when one has the forsight of even 10 minutes into the future??

quote:

If it was up to me, I'de make it clear to them that as soon as security for the entire country was secured, the US couldn't leave the vacuum of power open. It is essential that these tribal groups control their territories and they are forming units as part of the larger security apparatus.


Every action the US has taken has opened power vacumns. FFS you know what happened after the invasion. And your "suggestions" are ludcriously simple at best. There are tribal groups allied to teh Badr camp, the Sadr camp, the SCRCSI, the government, etc., etc., etc. Assassinations, poltiics, and corruption are a mainstay of life. Can you give me ONE first hand account of what the provisional government has attempted to do in Iraq that supports your view? How many first hand accounts have you read about what's going on in Iraq? From military commanders? From former Coaliation Provisional employees? If you have any first hand accounts I'd love to hear about them because I've read a lot that are quite disturbing. If you want I'll provide references.

quote:
There is no negative in changing a static course that wasn't working. It may be too little too late though.


Ummm yes there's changing a static course for the WORSE


___________________
Retro ...

Old Post Jun-21-2007 06:12  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for occrider Click here to Send occrider a Private Message Add occrider to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
the final Brigade has arrived...the "surge" is on like Donkey Kong.


Right. We should have known by June whether the Surge was working. Then we we're supposed to know by September. Now we're not going to know until 2017.

Yea thanks but no thanks you ultra liberal, big spender, nation builder clan. Please I think I have a few more tax dollars left for you to spend.

quote:

Petraeus: Iraq 'Challenges' to Last for Years

By Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 18, 2007; Page A11

Conditions in Iraq will not improve sufficiently by September to justify a drawdown of U.S. military forces, the top commander in Iraq said yesterday.

Asked whether he thought the job assigned to an additional 30,000 troops deployed as the centerpiece of President Bush's new war strategy would be completed by then, Gen. David H. Petraeus replied: "I do not, no. I think that we have a lot of heavy lifting to do."


Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker, his diplomatic counterpart in Baghdad, said a key report they will deliver to Washington in September will include what Crocker called "an assessment of what the consequences might be if we pursue other directions." Noting the "unhelpful roles" being played by Iran and Syria in Iraq, Crocker said: "We've got to consider what could happen."

Comments by Petraeus on "Fox News Sunday" and Crocker on NBC's "Meet the Press" were an indication of the administration's evolving strategy for confronting rising congressional demands to begin planning troop withdrawals. In addition to warning about the possible regional consequences of withdrawal, both men emphasized a "mixed" picture on the ground, citing successes while acknowledging the difficulty of the task ahead.

Asserting steady, albeit slow, military and political progress, Petraeus said that the "many, many challenges" would not be resolved "in a year or even two years." Similar counterinsurgency operations, he said, citing Britain's experience in Northern Ireland, "have gone at least nine or 10 years." He said he and Crocker would make "some recommendations on the way ahead" to Congress, and that it was realistic to assume "some form of long-term security arrangement" with Iraq.

Democrats failed last month to impose a withdrawal timetable in war-funding legislation. But the enacted measure mandated assessments of military, political and economic progress from Petraeus and Crocker -- rather than from Washington-based administration and military officials -- by Sept. 15.

A growing number of prominent Republicans who last month rejected any mention of withdrawal now say they view the September report as a crossroads.

"I think everybody anticipates that there's going to be a new strategy in the fall," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) said on CBS's "Face the Nation." "I don't think we'll have the same level of troops, in all likelihood, that we have now," totaling more than 150,000. "The time to properly evaluate that, it strikes me, is in September."

On the Iraqi political front, McConnell said, the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has been "a big disappointment. They have not done the things that they know they need to do to hold their country together -- things like the new oil law, things like local elections, things like finishing the de-Baathification process."

In announcing his new strategy in January, Bush said the troop increase would diminish sectarian violence in Baghdad and break Sunni insurgent control in Anbar province, a stronghold of the group al-Qaeda in Iraq. The ensuing calm, the administration said, would give the Shiite-dominated Maliki government time and space to reconcile with the minority Sunni and Kurdish communities, and build a unified administration that Iraqis -- including many now involved in violence -- would support.

But since the deployment of five additional U.S. combat brigades began in early spring, the overall level of violence has not abated and in some respects has increased, according to a Pentagon report issued last week. Little progress has been reported in achieving the political benchmarks spelled out in the funding legislation as well as a revision of the Iraqi constitution to provide a better balance of regional and sectarian factions in the government.

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said in Baghdad on Saturday that he had told the Iraqi government "that our troops are buying them time to pursue reconciliation, that frankly we are disappointed by the progress so far." The same message, he said, had been conveyed by Deputy Secretary of State John D. Negroponte and Adm. William J. Fallon, head of the U.S. military's Central Command, during Iraq visits last week.

In an interview posted on its Web site Saturday, Newsweek magazine quoted Maliki as criticizing administration statements that appeared to be "dictating to the Iraqi government." He said he had told U.S. officials that words such as "pressure" and "timetables . . . do not help."

Contradicting reports of difficulties in reaching agreement among Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, Maliki reportedly said that draft laws on oil, de-Baathification and provincial elections "are all ready and will be submitted to the parliament next week."

Petraeus and Crocker took issue with the portrayal of last week's Pentagon report as overwhelmingly negative, and cited successes in Anbar and in some Baghdad neighborhoods. They acknowledged that as U.S. and Iraqi troops had concentrated on those areas, insurgent activity had sharply increased elsewhere, mainly in the southern belt of Baghdad's suburbs and in Diyala province, northeast of the capital.

But Petraeus said that the arrival last week of the last of the newly deployed brigades had allowed a shift in U.S. strategy, "enabling us now to launch operations into sanctuaries, areas in which we have had very little coalition force presence other than raids in recent years."

Asked about the recent comment by Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) that Petraeus's optimistic assessment of security in Baghdad indicated that the general "isn't in touch with what's going on," Petraeus said that he has tried "not to pull punches" and to "present both the good and the bad." His report in September, he said, "will be a forthright assessment of what we've achieved and what we haven't achieved."


___________________
Retro ...

Old Post Jun-21-2007 06:22  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for occrider Click here to Send occrider a Private Message Add occrider to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

quote:
30,000 troops deployed as the centerpiece of President Bush's new war strategy


"Weeeell, that's yer problem right thar!"

You don't want politicians making themselves out to generals or military strategists, because most of them aren't and history has a wonderful and colourful example of their many failures in this role.

Old Post Jun-21-2007 06:26 
Click Here to See the Profile for Lilith Click here to Send Lilith a Private Message Add Lilith to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith
"Weeeell, that's yer problem right thar!"

You don't want politicians making themselves out to generals or military strategists, because most of them aren't and history has a wonderful and colourful example of their many failures in this role.


yep. i bet a decent RTS player could do better in real life than your average politician.


___________________

Old Post Jun-21-2007 06:34  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for pkcRAISTLIN Click here to Send pkcRAISTLIN a Private Message Add pkcRAISTLIN to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

True, we'll just get a bunch of Korean kids to figure it out, Starcraft is a national sport there

Old Post Jun-21-2007 06:39 
Click Here to See the Profile for Lilith Click here to Send Lilith a Private Message Add Lilith to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
LazFX
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2004
Location: 9th Circle

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith
True, we'll just get a bunch of Korean kids to figure it out, Starcraft is a national sport there


Starcraft Rules!!

Old Post Jun-21-2007 06:45  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for LazFX Click here to Send LazFX a Private Message Visit LazFX's homepage! Add LazFX to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Right. We should have known by June whether the Surge was working.


who says? you and Ried?

he said the numbers should peak in June back in early March >LINK<
this isn't rocket science dude.

quote:
Then we we're supposed to know by September.


right, thats when he is obligated to make his report. that was known from the get go. so?

quote:
Now we're not going to know until 2017.


i hope youre wrong.

quote:
Yea thanks but no thanks you ultra liberal, big spender, nation builder clan. Please I think I have a few more tax dollars left for you to spend.


if thats what it takes.

Old Post Jun-21-2007 08:30  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Q5echo Click here to Send Q5echo a Private Message Add Q5echo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Purple
. . . . . . . . .



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: . . . . . . . . .

Is it a surprise that 'The Surge' has failed? Giving fancy names like Iraqi Freedom, The Surge and blah blah bullshit dosent work.. they only look good in magazines and media channels..


___________________
___________________

Old Post Jun-21-2007 15:54 
Click Here to See the Profile for Purple Click here to Send Purple a Private Message Add Purple to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
who says? you and Ried?

he said the numbers should peak in June back in early March >LINK<
this isn't rocket science dude.


Ummm yes. We're peaking in June and there's still no deterrant in terrorism. You're exactly right this isn't rocket science. Nice though you trying to align me to Ried, despite me not knowing or caring anything about the guy. Granted I pretty much align you to every woeful thing that Bush has done but that's a little more self-professed isn't it?

quote:

right, thats when he is obligated to make his report. that was known from the get go. so?


It's quite simple really. Patreaus is insinuating that things are NOT going according to plan and that we might not see results for another 10 years or so. It's not rocket science dude.

quote:

i hope youre wrong.


Yea you and me both, but I'm quoting military commanders on the ground. Don't hope that I'm wrong, why don't you hope that your/my military is wrong. And hopefully maybe you'll attempt to hold the fucktards that are responsible for creating this mess responsible.

quote:

if thats what it takes.


Yea you see, I'm not so stupid that I endorse incompetance with my money. Perhaps you would like to see your tax dollars go to waste but don't expect me to make a similar sacrifice for the stupidity of others. Perhaps you should make more tangible sacrifices to support this administration's policies by investing in government bonds and therefore financing this war at abysmal rates of return? It worked in WW2 and if this war is as just as you make it out be ...


___________________
Retro ...

Old Post Jun-22-2007 05:41  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for occrider Click here to Send occrider a Private Message Add occrider to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Ummm yes. We're peaking in June and there's still no deterrant in terrorism. You're exactly right this isn't rocket science. Nice though you trying to align me to Ried, despite me not knowing or caring anything about the guy. Granted I pretty much align you to every woeful thing that Bush has done but that's a little more self-professed isn't it?



It's quite simple really. Patreaus is insinuating that things are NOT going according to plan and that we might not see results for another 10 years or so. It's not rocket science dude.



Yea you and me both, but I'm quoting military commanders on the ground. Don't hope that I'm wrong, why don't you hope that your/my military is wrong. And hopefully maybe you'll attempt to hold the fucktards that are responsible for creating this mess responsible.



Yea you see, I'm not so stupid that I endorse incompetance with my money. Perhaps you would like to see your tax dollars go to waste but don't expect me to make a similar sacrifice for the stupidity of others. Perhaps you should make more tangible sacrifices to support this administration's policies by investing in government bonds and therefore financing this war at abysmal rates of return? It worked in WW2 and if this war is as just as you make it out be ...


noted.

i really have nothing more to say other than there are some good men over there implementing the "Surge" . they know what they do and why they're there doing it, and Al Quaeda is about to get slaughtered.

Last edited by Q5echo on Jun-22-2007 at 10:12

Old Post Jun-22-2007 10:04  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Q5echo Click here to Send Q5echo a Private Message Add Q5echo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
noted.

i really have nothing more to say other than there are some good men over there implementing the "Surge" . they know what they do and why they're there doing it, and Al Quaeda is about to get slaughtered.


I don't disagree that there are good men over there doing a fantastic job. But this isn't a conflict that can be won through the military alone. And I think the military will suffer because of the failures of the political branch.


___________________
Retro ...

Old Post Jun-23-2007 04:34  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for occrider Click here to Send occrider a Private Message Add occrider to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Since the The SurgeŽ has failed, operation Arm the Insurgency and Baathists has begun
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (5): « 1 2 3 [4] 5 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playback1996 progressive trance [2025] [1]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackJohnny Shaker - Pearl River (Instrumental) [2003]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 20:24.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!