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Originally posted by Orko My specific problems with the SPP: - Integrating our security with that of the US. They have proved time and again, they are not interested in real security, but only perception.

We're been relying on the States for so many years in this area it's not funny.
Our military is a joke to where it should be with all our commitments around the world.

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- Resource Management. We will HAVE to hand over water, and natural resources, whether we want to or not.

That's something we're offering to the table, not something being taken away.
Canada is a rich, resource based country so again, no surprise here.

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- Universal Health care The competitive nature of some of the agreements, will mean having to open our health industry to US competition. This is a long way coming, and the details are very sketchy right now, but the framework exists.

We're already in a two-teired system anyways.
Those with the cash can go to a private firm already.
This is a win for everyone in the end.

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Basically I want nothing to do with US politics, and their ways of governing our country. I live in Canada for a reason, because I want to live under Canadian laws, not those of the US, or even Mexico. I do understand our intertwined relationship, and that much of our financial and political climate is in fact influenced by the U.S., but this agreement, just takes things too far. Please do not think I am an ignorant person, who does not understand the complex global relationships. I have taken a management degree, worked for large business, from small positions to fairly responsible positions. And yes, I do think they will "Put us all in a handbasket to Hell?"

Business is business irrespective of borders; they all have an agenda to make money otherwise what's the point?
This doesn't automatically mean that 'somehow' we suddenly loose our nation sovereignty and culture; that's pure NDP crazy talk.
Scare the people by keep them divided.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r We're been relying on the States for so many years in this area it's not funny. Our military is a joke to where it should be with all our commitments around the world. That's something we're offering to the table, not something being taken away. Canada is a rich, resource based country so again, no surprise here. We're already in a two-teired system anyways. Those with the cash can go to a private firm already. This is a win for everyone in the end. Business is business irrespective of borders; they all have an agenda to make money otherwise what's the point? This doesn't automatically mean that 'somehow' we suddenly loose our nation sovereignty and culture; that's pure NDP crazy talk. Scare the people by keep them divided.

You're not a true Canadian, no offense ... I am more committed to protect Canadian sovereignity and resources than you are. And I am an immigrant, while you were born here.

This US-Canada-Mexico merger is a lot like the futuristic China-Russia-Kazakhstan merger. I would go and fight a war to stop a merger with China with any similar unions because they will totally abuse Russian sovereignity and control over her own resources. Same with this situation. I can see this coming. Its very obvious who the big winner is going to be, not the Canadian people.

And for the last time, can someone tell me what kind of jobs will be created with this crappy merger? Seriously, I heard 1 million times about jobs created, and right now it only seems that Canadian jobs will move to Mexico because it will be easier to do so ...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r This doesn't automatically mean that 'somehow' we suddenly loose our nation sovereignty and culture; that's pure NDP crazy talk. Scare the people by keep them divided.

THINK LONG-TERM.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH THINK LONG-TERM.

long term started when Canada couldn't compete with US in every aspect, and had to cooperate with US in order for a measure of security and prosperity. arguably, that can go all the way since the days of New France vs 13 colonies

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by EvilTree long term started when Canada couldn't compete with US in every aspect, and had to cooperate with US in order for a measure of security and prosperity. arguably, that can go all the way since the days of New France vs 13 colonies

soooooo in that case we should just bend over and give the Americans whatever they want for free? Or at least, give in to their demands that favour them and screw us?

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Jul-13-2007 at 21:52

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Originally posted by EvilTree long term started when Canada couldn't compete with US in every aspect, and had to cooperate with US in order for a measure of security and prosperity. arguably, that can go all the way since the days of New France vs 13 colonies

People seem to forget that Canada is very innovative even with the population difference; we CAN survive and have.
Sure there are more American companies that us, but that doesn't mean we need a knee-jerked reaction to 'protect our soverignty' either.
I'd much rather take the competition head on than rely on government trade tariffs and government subsidies in the name of national pride?
That just putting up walls and frankly, going backwards.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r People seem to forget that Canada is very innovative even with the population difference; we CAN survive and have. Sure there are more American companies that us, but that doesn't mean we need a knee-jerked reaction to 'protect our soverignty' either. I'd much rather take the competition head on than rely on government trade tariffs and government subsidies in the name of national pride? That just putting up walls and frankly, going backwards.

How is that going backwards? Because it's not acceptive of America's hypocritical "globalization" concept? Oh please

Yea, let's move "forward" towards complete economic takeover. That's the future. Let's take on the competition "head on" and get completely obliterated, because that's what will happen. Unlike American companies, Canadian corporations don't have the same potential to expand and take over like they do. These things, along with NAFTA, are to give an advantage to American corporations in expanding their business.

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Jul-13-2007 at 22:14

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH How is that going backwards? Because it's not acceptive of America's hypocritical "globalization" concept? Oh please

Globalization is NOT a concept.

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Yea, let's move "forward" towards complete economic takeover. That's the future. Let's take on the competition "head on" and get completely obliterated, because that's what will happen. Unlike American companies, Canadian corporations don't have the same potential to expand and take over like they do. These things, along with NAFTA, are to give an advantage to American corporations in expanding their business.

Maybe you missed the name of the group?
Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America.
Let's read that again.
Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America.
It's only the conspiracy quacks and hippies that have no idea what business is about that are squawking; shrouding their arguments with the Canadian flag hoping nobody see through it.
Government coddling of Canadian business WILL NOT HELP US.
They make for weak businesses which deserve to die off.
Giving businesses the right tools to fight globally is what's needed.
The rest of the world is doing it and we're falling behind.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH soooooo in that case we should just bend over and give the Americans whatever they want for free? Or at least, give in to their demands that favour them and screw us?

No.

It just means Canada will always play shortstacked against US and will have to work harder to get anything.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Maybe you missed the name of the group? Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America. Let's read that again. Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America.

LOL yea so?

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It's only the conspiracy quacks and hippies that have no idea what business is about that are squawking; shrouding their arguments with the Canadian flag hoping nobody see through it.

i could just as easily apply this same argument to the people who claim they know how everything works and pretend that "its for the betterment of freedom/mankind/bla bla bla"

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Government coddling of Canadian business WILL NOT HELP US. They make for weak businesses which deserve to die off. Giving businesses the right tools to fight globally is what's needed. The rest of the world is doing it and we're falling behind.

Who's "US"?? Consumers? Businesses? The economy?? Canadians?? The problem is, is that sometimes industries and companies need to be coddled to survive. It's one of the first lessons of "International Business".

I know we're short-stacked against the US. Afterall, they've been in the capitalist game for a little longer than us and have the resources (read: money) at their disposal to do more. This is precisely the reason why we should oppose these ideas of "deep integration" as much as possible so that we get as god of a deal as possible out of this.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Who's "US"?? Consumers? Businesses? The economy?? Canadians?? The problem is, is that sometimes industries and companies need to be coddled to survive. It's one of the first lessons of "International Business". I know we're short-stacked against the US. Afterall, they've been in the capitalist game for a little longer than us and have the resources (read: money) at their disposal to do more. This is precisely the reason why we should oppose these ideas of "deep integration" as much as possible so that we get as god of a deal as possible out of this.

Exactly how is holding out against 'deep integration' going to provide a better deal for Canada in the long term? Whether Canadians like it or not, US is the primary investor in Canadian economy and current economic boom is happening because of trade (which accounts for 85% of Canada's trade with the world) for most part.

As far as I'm concerned, 'deep integration' has happened, ever since Canada joined NAFTA. What only remains is politics, IMO

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

First NAFTA, then SPP, then NAU, what next?

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture