quote:

Originally posted by Cetra³ Seriously, I've heard enough fucking bullshit trance. No, it should not be easily accessible or however you want to put it. If people want to listen to trance they should. If they want to listen to what mainstream media and theiving record companies want you to listen to, then they can do that too. things like 'top 40' etc... are all shams, they don't portray accurately what the most popular types of music are and aren't healthy at all.

True but I don't think it's just trance he's talking about but EDM tracks in general. Pure or "true" trance as people like to call
it...is not very accessible, is not mainstream and is not stuff found on Anjunabeats or Armada. But "trance" as most people such as myself who got into it in the early 00s, including stuff on those labels is more a little more accessible, is more "pop" and even a little top-40ish (though it doesn't reach top 40 and not all is accessible enough for mainstream consumption). There's nothing wrong with tracks being that way though.

Some people like catchy melodies, catchy vocals or memorable songs..ala pop music. Laugh at me all you want, but not every release on those labels is uplifting, melodic crap as people like to think of it. If you dig..you can find some pretty banging, repetitive, and somewhat dark tracks. In no way am I an ASOT listening..Armin fan..so don't make that assumption. Not every track needs to be this deep, sophisticated, hard/banging or underground sounding track...it's dance music.

I'm not saying "I" personally love the really pop-sounding stuff nowadays that Armin or Above & Beyond plays, or really any of the mainstream dance stuff. I'm just adding to the discussion and taking another point of view. Not totally anti-pop/mainstream, but I wouldn't say all that I listen to now is pop/mainstream stuff (though not totally underground either).

Last edited by Spirit5 on Jul-21-2007 at 02:44

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Note to Project-K, I don't care, you don't have to be the 1 millionth person to remind me of that. It's not like I don't realize it so I have to be reminded. Don't like having to read more than three line posts, then don't read it, it's that simple.

I've stopped reading them actually. Not because they're long, but because they barely say anything that couldn't be resumed in a few words.

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When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

Actually, when I come to think of it, this thread has a really good point behind it, even if Indus Creed wasn't making it directly.

Put simply: the fact that perfectly digestible and mainstream records that should be chart hits (and, as I've shown, were chart hits in the UK and Europe) are routinely ignored by both the record labels and the public in places like the US and Canada shows a cultural bias and intolerance towards electronic music.

Now the predictable answer is: "Who cares, fuck off, leave dance music to the underground" with the implication that genuinely credible, uncompromising and challenging artists will not get recognition, or will sell their souls in pursuit of money, success and untold wealth. To that I say: bollocks.

Credible, uncompromising artists can have mainstream success, in any genre. In rock music, acts like Pink Floyd and Radiohead have proved that music can satisfy the mainstream without being soulless or shallow. If a genre of music is given chance, then the more mainstream acts will only beget interest in the more accomplished ones.

I don't particularly like this "dance music shouldn't try and be mainstream" attitude. It's not that dance music should alter itself to appeal to the wider audience: as this thread points out, there are songs in EDM that should already appeal to the mainstream, and yet they are the subject of bias. The argument "nobody in North America likes dance music and that sucks" is not a call to water down dance music, it's a call for equality. A snobbish "us and them" attitude can actually be detrimental to the genre.

Why? Because it's encouraging a distinct split between underground and overground. Dance music used to have its Pink Floyds with acts like Orbital and Leftfield: cross-over acts that satisfied genre purists and outsiders alike, while doing unique, experimental things with the music. Where have those acts gone? Where's the "Leftism" or "In Sides" of the '00s? It's all either snobbish Kompakt crowds or idiotic electro-house tosh. There aren't enough acts any more who want to make genuinely interesting, credible dance music without getting stuck up their own arses, and there aren't enough acts who want to be ambitious and reach wider groups of people without using the most derivative tactics to get there.

Maybe the failure of the "electronica" push in America and the early-00s "death of dance" killed off the idea of just being an electronic artist, without having to place yourself on one side or another of a "mainstream/underground" divide. It's an alien idea these days for a dance act to succeed in one area and also the other. All the good musicians are so stung by the idea that nobody in the wider world will like them they won't even try. I think the genre's all the more poor for it.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K I've stopped reading them actually. Not because they're long, but because they barely say anything that couldn't be resumed in a few words.

Not really. I think deeper than to just write posts in a few words. Sure I could say a few words, but to me..it would mean nothing and not truly be a discussion. It's not trully explaining what I am saying. Besides, I get my posts misinterpreted, my view points misinterpreted or just skewed the wrong way (i.e. me talking about pop-trance/dance music when I actually don't really listen to that anymore, but my posts my seem like I still do).

I like to try to take other view points and or try to come to a middle ground, and to do that...it's just not easy to do in say two or three words.

I have to explain myself, and if you don't like it, don't read it or bother commenting on it because that's not going to change it. Your not me, and don't know me, so your comments are best left out of this perfectly valid discussion. To me a discussion is a discussion, and posting on a message board is not the same as an IM or chat room where things should be left short. Some may think it is, but I think of it more like a blog than a back and forth conversation (maybe elements of both).

Some threads can just be a few and start out as just a few words...which usually is all that is needed (track suggestions). Then it turns into a discussion and people discuss the topic more throughouly. This is an example of a thread like that.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Jul-21-2007 at 04:17

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Besides, I get my posts misinterpreted, my view points misinterpreted

Because you babble on and repeat the same ideas over and over again. It makes your posts annoying to read. I'm sorry if it comes off as hostile, I was just taking a light hearted stab. I don't dislike you. And I know that people have told you this a thousand times but they're right, and they're just wishing you could communicate your ideas more efficiently because evidently someone in the education system hasn't been doing their job.

For instance, here's your post with a bunch of redundant text highlighted;

quote:

Not really. I think deeper than to just write posts in a few words. Sure I could say a few words, but to me..it would mean nothing and not truly be a discussion. It's not trully explaining what I am saying. Besides, I get my posts misinterpreted, my view points misinterpreted or just skewed the wrong way (i.e. me talking about pop-trance/dance music when I actually don't really listen to that anymore, but my posts my seem like I still do). I like to try to take other view points and or try to come to a middle ground, and to do that...it's just not easy to do in say two or three words. I have to explain myself, and if you don't like it, don't read it or bother commenting on it because that's not going to change it. Your not me, and don't know me, so your comments are best left out of this perfectly valid discussion. To me a discussion is a discussion, and posting on a message board is not the same as an IM or chat room where things should be left short. Some may think it is, but I think of it more like a blog than a back and forth conversation (maybe elements of both). Some threads can just be a few and start out as just a few words...which usually is all that is needed (track suggestions). Then it turns into a discussion and people discuss the topic more throughouly. This is an example of a thread like that.

___________________
When bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Not really. I think deeper than to just write posts in a few words.

No you don't. You take a simple point and state it, then re-state it and then re-state it again, usually with a quasi-anecdote or pointlessly long list of tracks. There's nothing "deep" about your rambles, they just consist of a point that could be stated laconically being repeated, as though saying something in many words gives it more worth.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Gui Boratto - Beautiful Life deserved mainstream attention because it was a hell of a track. It screamed VH1 in my opinion.

But I agree, no track SHOULD be mainstream by any means.

There seems to be too many confusions/discussions/debates on the idea behind this thread.

I don't intend to disrupt the debate - it is always a good learning point. I do intend to clarify though, if only to clear some confusion.

1. Yes, the tracks i mentioned (atleast some of them like "As the rush comes" etc) were massive hits possibly in UK and a couple of more countries. However, they didn't get much airplay in North America. Barely anyone from mainstream audience is aware of them.

2. I wanted to know of EDM-tracks that you feel should've been a decent hit among the mainstream audience but that didn't really make it. This was specific to countries other than UK (and some more countries from Europe). More specifically, i had example of US and Canada in mind.

3. My point also was not that the tracks i mentioned are the best Trance tracks or anything. I just feel (and this feeling comes from playing tracks at local paries comprising mostly mainstream crowd) that many of similar kind of tracks had it in them to be decent hits among the mainstream crowd in US/Canada etc. but didn't quite make it thanks to the general apathy and ignorance to EDM scene. I was not specifically looking at the opinion on those tracks (even though that's welcome) but a listing of tracks that sufferered similar fate.

Finally, apart from the tracks i already mentioned, i have played tracks like Barakka - Song of the Siren (Max Graham Mix), IIO-Rapture (Deep Dish Mix), Lustral - Everytime etc. and i have had people ask me what song was that. And this was at parties where anything EDM would be totally out-of-place. My point - as someone already mentioned, people like good vocals+beats+melodies+emotion combination and it hardly matters to them if they come from Trance or generic EDM or any other genre.

I am sure many veterans on this forum know about more such tracks that could've been lapped up by the mainstream audience (or will be very much acceptable to the mainstream audience if you play it in a party) and just wanted to have their inputs.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee I think he was using those tracks as examples that HAVE made it mainstream. The topic seems to be about other tracks that had all the hallmarks of such tracks, but didn't quite cross over (for whatever reason).

More or less - that summed it up.

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Dance like no one is watching

Way Out West - Mindcircus

quote:

Originally posted by Semirk Way Out West - Mindcircus

Plus One Million.

Also Madonna - What it Feels Like for a Girl (Above and Beyond Mix)

Was so good it was actually used for the official music video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYD_HsEZV9o

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Nothing lasts, nothing lasts, everything is changing into something else. Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong, everything is on track...

You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

hmm i thought Punk and Burned with Desire were mainstream hits(i heard Burned with desire played in abromcrombie before)

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No you don't. You take a simple point and state it, then re-state it and then re-state it again, usually with a quasi-anecdote or pointlessly long list of tracks. There's nothing "deep" about your rambles, they just consist of a point that could be stated laconically being repeated, as though saying something in many words gives it more worth.

If you or other's wouldn't dissect all of my posts and everything that I say then it probably wouldn't happen. So what if I do repeat stuff, I realize I do, but it's not like just pointing it out is going to magically make me stop doing it. I sometimes do it unconsciously, because it's how I think/type whatever. It seems like no one "gets" my points on here so I feel forced to try explaining them as best as I can, using as many examples and analogies as I can think of. In many ways I am just trying to prevent being flammed/disrespected or my points misconstruded.

Maybe if I didn't get that and had people actually discuss things more civily with me (and others) and attempt to understand my viewpoint (but not agreeing with it), I probably wouldn't ramble on and on. It's all about how you approach it, how you say things..how you disagree with a point. Just stating that maybe treating me with a little more respect rather than ridicule or "you make pointless, long ass posts" all of the time...maybe i'd eventually stop. I wouldn't be as compelled to edit posts constantly, or ramble.

And it's funny cause in real life, I actually don't do that as much. I am talkative, but I don't talk in paragraphs but I do sometimes ramble.