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Originally posted by jerZ07002 except christian missionaries are feeding the children in africa. the only thing muslims feed children is hatred.

Kind of like how the only shit you type is bullshit.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Kind of like how the only shit you type is bullshit.

pretty much.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r It makes about as much sense you including me in your little tirade, on a subject regarding British Muslims doesn't it?

No, the inclusion of you in my "little tirade" is due to your participation in every thread that debate the subject of British Muslims...

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 except christian missionaries are feeding the children in africa. the only thing muslims feed children is hatred.

You again totally missed the point.. I am saying Muslims dont interfere in other people's life and religion.. they dont make/or ask people convert to theirs.. seulment Christians do that..

Here I will give one example:

I went to this Christian College, this college has one 'Social' wing which 'feeds' the poor.. recently this Social Wing of my Christian College adopted a completely Muslim Village in rural area.. they adopted this village to build one school there... and there was just one condition that my College set to villagers.. that every morning the first class will be an hour long on bible.. and everyone has to attend it..

Now how does that sound? You go and adopt a completely Muslim village and build a school to teach Bible to Muslim kids..? Their main/primary aim behind whole this adoption thing is to convert the whole village to Christianity by next generation... and 'feeding the poor' thing is only secondary.

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Last edited by Purple on Sep-13-2007 at 09:13

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Originally posted by Purple You again totally missed the point.. I am saying Muslims dont interfere in other people's life and religion.. they dont make/or ask people convert to theirs..

hmmmmmmmm.. really?? so I guess all of those Shiates(sp) and Sunnis are just kissing and making up for 100s of years?? And lets not even bring up Whahabi


even though it states in the muslim's good book??

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"As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you have no part of them in the least. Their affair is with Allah; He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did." (6:159) "Surely, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher. Therefore serve me and no other. But they broke their religion into sects among them; yet they will all return to Us." (21:92-93) "And surely this brotherhood of your is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher. Therefore fear Me and no other. But people have broken their religion into sects, each group rejoicing in that which is with them. But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time." (23:52-54) "Turn back in repentance to Him, and fear Him. Establish regular prayers, and be not among those who ascribe partners to God -- those who split up their religion, and become mere sects, each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!" (30:31-32) "The believers are but a single Brotherhood. So make peace and reconciliation between your two contending brothers, and observe your duty to God, that you may receive mercy." (49:10-11)

Also this...

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But the main Hindu nationalist party -- which rose to prominence after the Babri mosque at the site was demolished in 1992 by Hindu extremists -- quickly called for nationwide protests Wednesday and for a general strike in Uttar Pradesh state, where Ayodhya is situated. BJP leaders described the strike as an "attack on Hindu faith" and demanded the resignations of the federal and Uttar Pradesh state home ministers for the "laxity" which allowed the militants to storm the site.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/...article04.shtml


now do you want to redo your statement??

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Originally posted by George Smiley Laz, I have never had a problem with you or anyone else criticising radical al-Qaida types in the UK or anywhere else. There IS a problem and it needs addressing and discussing. What I have had a problem with is how you (and others) have created, either accidentally or deliberately, the impression this problem is characteristic of the wider Muslim community when it isn't. Of course, there are actions the Muslim community as a whole could take, but at the end of the day, we have no right to force them to do something the "native" white population is not expected to do.

You are correct, but as a person that looks at this from another pov, say the average American or Englishman it is the lack of the Muslim community stepping up and cleaning house...

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By IANS Thursday September 13, 07:54 AM With so many voices stating that the religion advocates violence, Islam is today under the scanner. Not all of them can be wrong -- people judge by what they see and today these terrorists speak and act violently in the name of Islam. The familiar drill after every terror attack was repeated last month after the twin Hyderabad blasts killing about 50 people -- the government passing the buck to foreign involvement, the announcement of compensation to the dead and news updates that normalcy has been restored and, finally, the worn out cliche that terrorist designs to upset peace are defeated. More Muslims need to realise that Islamist terrorists are not simply 'misguided' individuals acting on a whim but are people who know what they are doing and are doing it deliberately in the name of Islam. It is simply not enough just to condemn their demoniac acts without actually doing something as observed by London-based journalist, Hasan Suroor. Islamic terrorism hasn't descended from another galaxy, rather it breeds within the community and is a result of a particular mindset that misinterprets Islam. These suicide bombers - criminals against humanity - often invoke Islam for their dirty criminal deeds and assume Arabic sounding names and call themselves mujahids (holy warriors) to pass their misdeeds as an act of jehad. Muslims must come out openly on the streets against terror outfits like the Lashkar-e-Toiba(LeT), Harkat-ul-Jihad-e-Islam (HuJi), Al Qaeda, Sipah-e-Sahaba and other. Many of the terrorists acting in the name of Islam cite Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq and Afghanistan to justify their killings. They have lost their moral compass. For them anyone who does not agree with their point of view is an infidel and can be eliminated. From 9/11 to 25/8 Hyderabad now, theirs is a bloody tale of hate and retribution. The word jehad comes from its Arabic root jahada meaning 'to struggle'. The word jehad has been so badly misused both by wayward Muslim terrorists and Islam-baiters that it has completely lost its meaning. The term jehad has been misinterpreted to conjure up bizarre images of violent Muslims forcing people to submit under duress. Islam rejects violence in all its forms but the jehadis take that path without caring as to what impact it can have on a common Muslim by making him a usual suspect. According to Prophet Mohammed, jehad is the inner struggle for virtue to submit to god in all walks of life. Do these jehadis know that murder is prohibited by the Quran and that during fighting non-combatants are guaranteed security of life if the state is at war? They don't read those verses that declare that taking the life of one innocent individual means killing the whole humanity. They have a skewed vision. They are able to misinterpret verses from the Quran to justify their heinous and horrendous designs of killing innocent people. According to Prophet Mohammed, 'Indeed whoever intentionally kills, himself will be punished in the fire of hell, wherein he shall dwell forever.' Regardless of how legitimate the cause may be, the Quran does not condone killing of innocent people. Terrorising defenceless civilians, bombing, killing and maiming of innocent men, women and children are most abhorred by Islam and those who indulge in these in the name of religion are not to be termed as Muslims. Frankly speaking, this is not the time to quote from the Quran on peace, but to act. Truly, those who have killed innocents, have nothing to do with Islam. Sura Al-Baqr (Verse: 114) in the Quran states that Allah dislikes those who indulge in arson, loot and killings. Sura Al-Kafirun (Chapter: 30) mentions: Lakum dinokum waley yadeen (You follow your religion; let them follow theirs). Islam's very meaning is submission. As a long term strategy of dealing with the menace of terrorism, the government should absorb patriotic Muslims in their departments to spy upon their fanatical co-religionists -- as we see in the role of Zaid Khan, a devoted ACP in the Mumbai police force in Mahesh Bhatt's latest film 'Dhokha' that goes into the roots of terrorism and aims at finding a solution based on reason and sanity. The SIMI (Students Islamic Movement of India), Shahi Imam Bukhari, fanatics in Coimbatore and Maharashtra, the calls for jehad and the distribution of inflammatory posters have enraged middle class Hindus. Minor issues like a few Muslim leaders opposing the singing of Vande Mataram on national occasions add fuel to the fire increasing animosity between the two communities over the years. Also, a large majority of Muslims remain isolated from people belonging to other faiths. During these times, there's a distinct divide between Islam and the West that is the worst thing to happen. Muslims should interact with people of other faiths. Interaction and dialogue inculcates tolerance in one's self. Isolation will deprive the world from getting to know the true spirit of Islam and will let all the stereotypes keep getting reinforced. The Muslim clergy, on its part, must get involved in weaning away the obdurate followers of Islam, following the message from the Quran that killing innocent people is a sin. Let us not wage a war of religion but one of reason and tolerance. Let us engage in a dialogue. Let us prove all those who link Islam with violence wrong. The need of the hour in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and other cities is that the moment the community observes any suspicious person living in their neighbourhood, they must without ado inform the local police. These jehadis prefer Muslim ghettoes, as nobody is bothered what activities are going on. It is also important that the Muslim community itself develops a broad range of tactics - from traditional counter-terrorist methods to softer more sophisticated strategies - to destroy this jehadi trend. Jehadi groups are relentlessly pursuing their roadmap to extremism in their effort to establish Dar-ul-Islam (land of Islam) in India that is already Dar-ul-Aman (land of peace) by brainwashing and inciting innocent youth. What is lamentable is that there is no sign of a debate in the community. This is a matter of serious concern. A liberal Muslim must check a communalist Muslim and a communal Hindu should be checked by a liberal Hindu. Muslim voices of sanity aren't loudly heard. There shouldn't be 'ifs' and 'buts' while condemning terror acts. We have to agree to the principle that the killing of innocents cannot be justified irrespective of race, religion, place or ethnicity. (Firoz Bakht Ahmed is a commentator on social and educational issues. He can be reached at [email protected].)

Taken from India-Yahoo news

Christianity already had its reformation and it was just as violent....the only difference is we live in modern times and those times will for ever bump heads against the radical, Christian or muslim. When a certain sect of people fear change and progress, they use the one tool to breed fear and hate.... that tool is a myth. A myth that has held ManKind back from truly advancing... These present day Myths....Christianity, Judaism and Islam are not even original.... if the average follower of the faith would open their minds, then they will see that the one book that ties all of these myths together is basically a rip off of ancient Sumerian stories...... and that FACT right there would turn these religions into nothing, just like the gods of Rome and Greece. Even though Catholics just kept the names of the gods and made them into so called Saints.... but that another thread p.s. ever see ancient egyptian art?? 1000's of years before the so called Virgin Birth, there are pictures exactly like Mary with the baby Jesus.... Isis and Horus....
=

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religious beliefs are consoling. They promise comforting delusions such as life after death, a sexual paradise for male martyrs and retribution in the next world.

Last edited by LazFX on Sep-13-2007 at 11:07

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Originally posted by LazFX You are correct, but as a person that looks at this from another pov, say the average American or Englishman it is the lack of the Muslim community stepping up and cleaning house... Christianity already had its reformation and it was just as violent....the only difference is we live in modern times and those times will for ever bump heads against the radical, Christian or muslim. When a certain sect of people fear change and progress, they use the one tool to bread fear and hate.... a myth.

You're approaching this completely the wrong way. The reason some Muslim youths feel pushed towards a life of Jihad (of the violent kind) is not because they Muslim community's traditions breed hate and fear, but because they are just not accessible to the younger generation. Sermons tend to be in Arabic or whatever the language of the community's origns, not in English (meaning a great deal of the youths don't understand it) and are conducted mainly by nationals of the community's origins, not by British born Muslims. The community's also carry over traditions from their country of origin such as arranged marriages. These factors are not compatable with being a young British Muslim. But it's not that the community is preaching hate and violence as you suggest. It's the fact that young Asians in the UK who are interested in learning about their culture and religion find it difficult to achieve this through their traditionalist Muslim community.

That's where the Jihadis come in. They preech in English and reject the dated old traditions of these people's communities. Even marrying for love is allowed. So the youths wanting to emerse themselves in some kind of identity, not the unaccessible traditionalist Muslim identity or the white Christian British identity, both of which these youths find themselves excluded from, get sucked into Jihadi ideology because it combines their desire to learn about Islam with the fact they are young British males.

So there are things the Muslim community can do to make their peaceful version of Islam more accessible to British Muslim youths, and imo, this is something that will happen naturally over time. I think what we are seeing here, is evidence of the theory that says riots will occur in an immigrant community around 30 years after the first influx as the younger generation come to terms with the inevitable crisis of identity of chosing between the cultures of the country they live in and the culture of the country of their community's origins. As each generation takes over the next, more and more tradition will be lost which is why I think this phenomenon will eventually die out (it's also a widely held belief that political Islam as a whole is a dying ideology across the globe, and the reason for this current wave of violence committed by them is the desperate last ditch attempt for the Islamists to save their ideology)

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Originally posted by George Smiley You're approaching this completely the wrong way. The reason some Muslim youths feel pushed towards a life of Jihad (of the violent kind) is not because they Muslim community's traditions breed hate and fear, but because they are just not accessible to the younger generation. Sermons tend to be in Arabic or whatever the language of the community's origns, not in English (meaning a great deal of the youths don't understand it) and are conducted mainly by nationals of the community's origins, not by British born Muslims. The community's also carry over traditions from their country of origin such as arranged marriages. These factors are not compatable with being a young British Muslim. But it's not that the community is preaching hate and violence as you suggest. It's the fact that young Asians in the UK who are interested in learning about their culture and religion find it difficult to achieve this through their traditionalist Muslim community. That's where the Jihadis come in. They preech in English and reject the dated old traditions of these people's communities. Even marrying for love is allowed. So the youths wanting to emerse themselves in some kind of identity, not the unaccessible traditionalist Muslim identity or the white Christian British identity, both of which these youths find themselves excluded from, get sucked into Jihadi ideology because it combines their desire to learn about Islam with the fact they are young British males. So there are things the Muslim community can do to make their peaceful version of Islam more accessible to British Muslim youths, and imo, this is something that will happen naturally over time. I think what we are seeing here, is evidence of the theory that says riots will occur in an immigrant community around 30 years after the first influx as the younger generation come to terms with the inevitable crisis of identity of chosing between the cultures of the country they live in and the culture of the country of their community's origins. As each generation takes over the next, more and more tradition will be lost which is why I think this phenomenon will eventually die out (it's also a widely held belief that political Islam as a whole is a dying ideology across the globe, and the reason for this current wave of violence committed by them is the desperate last ditch attempt for the Islamists to save their ideology)

I see what you are saying........ but I still say its Islam's own rigid structure that allows this to happen... the very fact that, and I have been told this by a Muslim, that I need to know Arabic to truly understand the Koran is completely stupid. These kids who are second/third generation that want to feel a part of something. They were raised a certain way but are told that out side of the mosque or house is evil and not to have any thing to do with it......then as you stated... the Jihadist come into the picture and ...well you know the rest...
and I agree with you 100%

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As each generation takes over the next, more and more tradition will be lost which is why I think this phenomenon will eventually die out (it's also a widely held belief that political Islam as a whole is a dying ideology across the globe, and the reason for this current wave of violence committed by them is the desperate last ditch attempt for the Islamists to save their ideology)

Its the loss of that ideology that calls for desperate acts.
I do feel that I will not live long enough to see that happen, as long as Western Policies continue, the Jihadist will always have fuel to add to the flames.....

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Originally posted by Purple You again totally missed the point.. I am saying Muslims dont interfere in other people's life and religion.. they dont make/or ask people convert to theirs.. seulment Christians do that.. Here I will give one example: I went to this Christian College, this college has one 'Social' wing which 'feeds' the poor.. recently this Social Wing of my Christian College adopted a completely Muslim Village in rural area.. they adopted this village to build one school there... and there was just one condition that my College set to villagers.. that every morning the first class will be an hour long on bible.. and everyone has to attend it.. Now how does that sound? You go and adopt a completely Muslim village and build a school to teach Bible to Muslim kids..? Their main/primary aim behind whole this adoption thing is to convert the whole village to Christianity by next generation... and 'feeding the poor' thing is only secondary.

No, Islam just kills all who don't believe instead. Why waste time converting them when you can send them to hell right now?

It's also worth noting that the majority of the Christian organisation's do not aggressively convert in this manor.

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Dont expect profoundness so much as relentless and pathological destruction.

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Originally posted by LazFX but I still say its Islam's own rigid structure that allows this to happen...

True, but that should certainly not be confused with the false idea that this traditionalist way of teaching Islam is preaching hate and violence, or deliberately spreading the Jihadi ideology, as many claim...

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Originally posted by George Smiley True, but that should certainly not be confused with the false idea that this traditionalist way of teaching Islam is preaching hate and violence, or deliberately spreading the Jihadi ideology, as many claim...

I dunno, it's not asif Islam was always peaceful, awakening to almost as much a violent nature as the Catholic Church. (Almost.)

___________________
Dont expect profoundness so much as relentless and pathological destruction.