quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But we don't even know if Turkey has actually gone into Iraq yet, certainly the major news corps are not reporting it Here's what's on CNN today: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast...urds/index.html Operations inside Turkey, no mention of incursions into Iraq So it's a very valid point asking where those photos were taken because by the looks of it they were taken inside Turkey if they are from current operations, but the media that is reporting is perhaps trying to make out that they are actually inside Iraq (or they are may be mistaken into thinking that) Let's face it, the reports that Turkey went into Iraq are all based on an "anonymous official" which should start alarm bells ringing right away as to the authenticity of these reports I'm not saying they are definately wrong, but usually in these circumstances there is a reason why the main media corps don't touch the story... As for your opinions about Turkey's military strength, they certainly do have one of the world's most powerful militaries, but your comparison with other European militaries is wrong. Turkey does not have anywhere near a more powerful military than the UK, France, Italy or Germany. Its more on a par with the Spanish military and it certainly doesn't have the most sophisticated technology in Europe as it doesn't even have nukes which 2 countries in Europe do (UK/France)

Agreed as of now. I've not seen anything in the media saying Turkey's conventional ground forces have crossed the border. Just airstrikes and probably commando-type stuff they don't tell you about.

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Originally posted by CooLKiD Turkish choppers, F-16s,artillery batteries strike pkk camps in North of Iraq since 3 days. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=04c_1193273604 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e5b_1193234077

thanks for posting the second video, the first video was alot of meh.


anyhow yes the turkish army does look bad ass and well equipped , but remember the Us has a bad ass and very well equipped army and they have been unsuccesful in iraq. i dont know why this operation is going to be any different.... anyone think it will?

Well shite...now I have to read all about Turkey...

I do know that their stance on 'terrorism' is pretty strong and their army well...definitely nothing to sneeze at that's for sure...

quote:

Air force personnel 63,000 [8th of 49] Armed forces growth -3 [79th of 132] Armed forces personnel 610,000 [7th of 166] Army personnel 525,000 [4th of 49] Conventional arms exports $18,000,000.00 [28th of 40] Expenditures > Dollar figure $8,100,000,000.00 [16th of 170] Forces in Europe > Aircraft 358 [8th of 24] Forces in Europe > Battle Tanks 2,317 [5th of 24] Navy personnel 51,000 [8th of 49] Weapon holdings 10,049,000 [9th of 137]

>>Source<<

And the painting job on the military plane is awesome...

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r >>Source<<

We haven't got ANY aircraft! Yet according to that source we have 52,540 airforce personnel! What the fuck are they doing if we don't have any aircraft?!



We haven't even got any tanks! Even fucking Armenia has some bloody tanks!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/m...pe-battle-tanks



Yet apparently we're the second biggest military spenders in the world! Either we have the biggest navy in the world or our soldiers are paid too bloody much!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/m...ute-figures-usd

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley We haven't got ANY aircraft! Yet according to that source we have 52,540 airforce personnel! What the fuck are they doing if we don't have any aircraft?! We haven't even got any tanks! Even fucking Armenia has some bloody tanks! http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/m...pe-battle-tanks Yet apparently we're the second biggest military spenders in the world! Either we have the biggest navy in the world or our soldiers are paid too bloody much! http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/m...ute-figures-usd

Apparently the UK is 'exempt' from the stats.

Or you just don't register...

[edit] click on the map tab and you'll see UK isn't even colour coded...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Apparently the UK is 'exempt' from the stats. Or you just don't register... [edit] click on the map tab and you'll see UK isn't even colour coded...

True, I know for sure than UK has at least 500 tanks. I've seen pics and videos somewhere.


#2. Ukraine: 3,784 tanks <<< WTF?

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium #2. Ukraine: 3,784 tanks <<< WTF?

...and how old are these tanks?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...and how old are these tanks?

lol, seriously

probably collecting dust in an old soviet-era bunker

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r ...and how old are these tanks?

Ukraine doesnt even need tanks at all. Russians are not gonna take over, hahah. Its probably a total of all their Ukrainian tanks dating back to the breakup days, most of those gotta be the Soviet tanks, so yes quite old, hahah (I'd say 15-25 year old tanks).

Even worse, when Soviet Union was breaking up, some military was divided, and for good part the new republics received crappier share of military equipment.

Also, Ukraine doesnt really have the money to upkeep its "massive" tank collection.

So that shows that statistics are flawed - the number of tanks doesnt mean its better. Turkish have smaller tank forces but more modern ones, overall much better. So that statistics list shouldn't be taken seriously, its deeply flawed.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Isn't Turkey the 2nd largest buyer of US weapons, next to the Saudi's?

They have an interesting mix of American and Russian gear. I heard that they also buy Israeli stuff, from someone I would tend to believe, even though that sounds pretty far fetched.

I'm seeing a lot of this on the news here (we get 2 Turkish channels) and from what I can gather, there are boots on the ground in the north of Iraq. How many or how far south, I'm not sure.

BBC is also reporting the same.

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Paul