I was actually referring to Hillary (we are in a Hillary thread no? Did I miss something?)

Here yea go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT1EWKFjkPI
(They didn't allow embedding on this one)



Honestly, is there a larger flip flopper than Clinton?

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov This is a long post and I'm headed to bed, so I'll just jot some quick thoughts down. I think we are agreeing more than you think... but the problem is our definition of "liberal" seems to be different. I wouldn't characterize Rahm Emanuel or Diane Feinstein as liberal at all really. Their track record in Congress has been spineless when it comes to standing up to the conservatives either on The Hill or in the White House. So in criticism of them over the war in Iraq, I definitely agree. I'm more of a Rep. Obey/Sen. Webb kind of guy myself. I will admit to you that I don't know the ins and outs of the Kosovo conflict as well as I should - I am more familiar with Bosnia, since I study it as a conflict resolution major. But even as a patrilineal Serbian, I hesitate to call the NATO involvement completely unjustified. Overboard? Perhaps. But not totally unwarranted.

Yeah right, if they thought it was good , they would fight on the ground but all they did is bomb from afar.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Some of the things you have said ring of some truth but strike me as a bit hyperbolic - I still don't agree that there is a broad conspiracy within the government to support Israel and build an empire with Israel as the crown jewel. There are far too many people that I have met in DC that wouldn't stand for it. However, I do think that the policy of the US government is that Israel is and will remain a key ally in the region. And when you compare Israel to other allies, such as Saudi Arabia, the home of many 9/11 attackers, I suppose it is somewhat understandable why someone like Biden would say that Israel is our best ally there. Again, I'm saying I understand why he said it but not that I agree with him.

Well since you now assured me that Israel and their people in Washington are all good and benign just like Joe Biden is all good and benign , I guess I can relax and let them have it ,right

I mean I did expose Biden for you and you didn't even say thanks

Israel is the only country that is openly subsidized economically and militarilly by American taxpayers no matter the government in place only because of the enormous zionist presence in Washington. All the other regimes are weak and kept alive by american arms so they could sit there and play like ducks.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I would be much more open to an argument that elements of the democratic party were apologists for the neo-conservative agenda, rather than complicit in it. I don't think they actively lobbied for the neo-conservative movement or anything like that, but I do believe they failed to stand up to it. The reason I focused on Biden was it is the first time I've really seen him lumped into the bunch with the other blue dog Dems... he's been much more vocal against this administration and it's policies than any of the other folks you mentioned. But I will admit that you have made me ask some questions about him. So I guess we'll leave it at that for now. You haven't convinced me, but you've definitely raised some good points. I think the truth, as usual, probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I'd like to hear your counter points on Biden, imperialism and everything else instead and try to prove my points wrong instead of just generalizing them

America is democracy so the only way to make wars based on huge lies is if there is a huge collusion between the parties and the media. This is interesting
http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_03_27/cover.html

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov And as for me - well, despite your disbelief I am indeed part Serbian... the family originally came to the US around World War I, so I'm third-generation. Take that as you will. Anyway, have a good night.

well you should say that before as you seemed to be speaking from some serbian point which is obviously not the case . Are you working in DC ?

quote:

Originally posted by erdega Israel is the only country that is openly subsidized economically and militarilly by American taxpayers no matter the government in place only because of the enormous zionist presence in Washington. All the other regimes are weak and kept alive by american arms so they could sit there and play like ducks.

orly? just how much of Israel's $170 billion economy do you believe we Americans "subsidize"?

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Originally posted by Q5echo orly? just how much of Israel's $170 billion economy do you believe we Americans "subsidize"?

Enough so that Israelis choose American subsidies over serious peace negotiations or maybe they don't have any choice since American zionists force it on them one way or the other .
But since you are into numbers, here is some numbers for you

US Military Aid to Israel Tops $30 Billion in 10 years
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff08182007.html

Israel is the only state whose economy and military and military industry is actively subsidized by American taxpayers no matter the regime in place

quote:

Originally posted by erdega Israel is the only state whose economy and military and military industry is actively subsidized by American taxpayers no matter the regime in place

quote:

Aid is central to Washington's relationship with Cairo. The US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since 1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0412/p07s01-wome.html


But that's off-topic.

From the democratic campaign trail:

quote:

Biden: "OK" With Losing By Lynda Waddington Posted November 28, 2007 | 01:40 PM (EST) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following piece is published on Iowa Independent. The crowd of 100 people gathered at the Waverly Civic Center Tuesday night was hushed and thoughtful as Delaware Sen. Joe Biden answered an audience member's question regarding the difference between this run for the White House and his previous bid. Biden, a long-time member of the United States Senate, made a previous bid for the White House in the late 1980s, only to drop when he neglected to provide attribution for a portion of a speech by Neil Kinnock, then leader of the British Labour Party, during an Iowa campaign stop. Although Biden, who was considered the 1988 frontrunner, had previously used text from the speech with attribution on many occasions, the one where he did not was caught on video by aides to rival Michael Dukakis, and the incident brought about the end to Biden's campaign. Dukakis would later fire John Sasso, campaign manager and long-time chief of staff, over the incident. "You mentioned on Tim Russert a couple of weeks ago that maybe the last time you ran -- and I am paraphrasing -- that you were maybe a little to arrogant, maybe a little too confident," said the man who also confessed that he had voted Republican since the mid-1970s. "How has that changed now?" The man also suggested that Biden consider Arizona Sen. John McCain as his running mate, but Biden quickly dismissed that notion by saying that although McCain is one of his closest friends, and has been for 35 years, the two possess a fundamental divide when it comes to foreign policy. "What's different between now and then?" Biden asked as he summarized the question for those who couldn't hear. "Look, I want to make it clear to you. I don't think that I'm the guy Diogenes found -- the only honest man. That's not the case I'm making. I'm not making the case that, you know, I'll never tell a lie. What I'm saying is that I promise you I'll tell you what I think. I promise you. I promise you I will tell you what I think is needed -- and I'll make the case for it. This is because some things are worth losing an election over." Biden went on to discuss the May vote to fund the troops in Iraq. Despite campaign advisers cautioning him that his vote would be construed as being in favor of the war, Biden was the only Democratic presidential contender to give approval to the measure and has stated, on many occasions, that he made the right choice. "This is the key difference between 22 years ago and today," he said. "Today, I know exactly why I want to be president. I'm not saying I know I'm right about everything, but I know why I want to be president. I know what I will try to do. The difference between then and now is an easy call. That vote was worth losing an election over. "I respect the fact that you thought that vote was in support of the war and that I shouldn't have done it. But as long as there is one single, solitary soldier in harms way that I know I can protect -- that I know I can materially increase their chance of surviving -- I will do it." The difference this time around for him, Biden said, "is that it's okay to lose." "I really mean that," he added. "I want to be your president. But if the Lord Almighty came down and said, 'I guarantee you, Joe, that Barack or Hillary or John or Chris will do a better job than you as president' -- I give you my word that I'd say "thank you, God, I can go home.'" Biden said he is running because -- "honest to God" -- he feels he is the most qualified. Linda Engel, a former Republican who switched her party affiliation three months ago to caucus for a Democrat, said she agrees. "I used to listen to [Biden] during the [Robert] Bork confirmation hearings," said Engel. "I like what he says. A lot of it just makes sense and I do think he is the most qualified. The Republican side of me hates to admit it, but I do think he is the most qualified. He has the experience." Engel, a resident of Waverly, says she has been to campaign events for many candidates on both sides of the political aisle. "I like a lot of the things the Republicans have to say individually, but the lump of any one candidate doesn't appeal to me," she said. "I decided that I hated the idea of Hillary Clinton being the nominee enough -- I believe 'ABC,' Anybody But Clinton -- that I had to go over to the Democratic side just so I could try and stop that. "And the reason I don't like Hillary's candidacy is that she professes to be this liberated woman and this epitome of women's liberation and, really, she got where she is by following the 50's motto of picking a guy who had potential, grooming him and making him into what she wanted to be -- so that she could end up in the White House. That's not women's liberation... I have no respect for her as a liberator of women." During the event, Engel asked Biden for his views on immigration. In particular, she wanted to know if he was in favor of building a wall between the United States and Mexico. Biden told her and the audience that he did not favor or wall -- or a moat -- since neither would solve the problem. He proposed talks with the Mexican government to persuade them to take better care of their own citizenry. "I think we really need to look at the immigration policy with Mexico," Engel said. "I really am opposed to the wall. And I really think the people we need to create a policy about are not the educated, engineering-type people, but the people who do the stuff that we don't want to do. I mean, I can't think of anyone who wants to go out and pick tomatoes or strawberries. We need those people who are willing to come and do that. So, there needs to be some sort of mechanism to make it work. I'm not pretending to say how that needs to be. By that same token, I'm not saying that they need to be entitled to our health care and our education unless they become citizens."

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Romney, Giuliani, and Paul all looked fairly awful in last night's debate.

Huckabee and McCain were clear winners in my opinion. Romney got beat down by Huckabee on religion and by McCain on torture, Ron Paul didn't really make any sense (he's an ob/gyn and he's NEVER seen a case of a woman needing an abortion to save her life? I suppose those evil womenz just make that crap up? And anyway, where does a libertarian get off advocating the appeal of a federal right protected under a Supreme Court ruling?), and then got called a Nazi sympathizer by McCain, and Giuliani took a beating by Anderson Cooper and Romney on immigration. Wow is the GOP field lackluster.

Huckabee, the creationist, seems the most qualified to be President these days... scary world we live in.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0412/p07s01-wome.html

You again?

Egypt's aid is only proportional that Israel receives a much larger "aid" , 20 times modre per inhabitant infact. This aid only arms Egypt and a static regime there once again exposing american support for dictators and only so much that they can't threaten Israel. Egyptian economy doesn't have much if anything from this unlike Israelis who profit mightily and enjoy special status.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Romney, Giuliani, and Paul all looked fairly awful in last night's debate. Huckabee and McCain were clear winners in my opinion. Romney got beat down by Huckabee on religion and by McCain on torture, Ron Paul didn't really make any sense (he's an ob/gyn and he's NEVER seen a case of a woman needing an abortion to save her life? I suppose those evil womenz just make that crap up? And anyway, where does a libertarian get off advocating the appeal of a federal right protected under a Supreme Court ruling?), and then got called a Nazi sympathizer by McCain, and Giuliani took a beating by Anderson Cooper and Romney on immigration. Wow is the GOP field lackluster. Huckabee, the creationist, seems the most qualified to be President these days... scary world we live in.

I'm Groundhog Boy and I approve and endorse this message.



God, did they suck last night. I loved how they asked Romney about the Confederate flag first. He or Rudy were definitely the best to lead that one off.

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quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I'm Groundhog Boy and I approve and endorse this message. God, did they suck last night. I loved how they asked Romney about the Confederate flag first. He or Rudy were definitely the best to lead that one off.

Yeah, and watching Anderson Cooper press Romney on the Bible was almost painful to watch. The things that matter in the GOP.

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Anyone count how many times the economy was mentioned that night by the GOP candidates?

Anyone wanna take a guess as we're teasing the lines between inflation and recession with a major slump on the housing and credit markets?

C'mon, take a wild guess.......

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quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Anyone count how many times the economy was mentioned that night by the GOP candidates? Anyone wanna take a guess as we're teasing the lines between inflation and recession with a major slump on the housing and credit markets? C'mon, take a wild guess.......

It was interesting to see how many blonde college co-eds in this country seem to care about balancing the budget.

Also, out of 34 questions asked, only ONE was about Iraq. And none about the environment.

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