quote:

Originally posted by Krypton It is irrelavent because an ethnic identity is much different from a NATIONAL identity. I know your asking "what if?". I'm telling you there is no what if, because the ethnic minorities in this country do not have a national identity outside that of America. The Kosovo Albanians do.

And that was my point from the start, since they DO have a national identity outside of Kosovo as albanians and thus have a country of their own they should not be able to claim national identity as "kosovans" since Kosovo was not a nation in itself.

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Originally posted by Krypton States are free to secede from the union if they choose to.

ARe they now? Even if the rest of the union says no?

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Originally posted by Krypton Ahh, Serb honor is stake? I know Serbian nationalism is strong, and they rarely take no for an answer. I really hope the instability of the 1990's does not come back to the former Yugoslavia...

The main issue here has nothing to do with honor. It's all about what is right and legal and what's not, and this is wrong in and illegal in everyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton 1. You have to ask the question of national identity. If you were to go to Pristina and ask, "What nationality are you?" I'm almost 100% certain the overwhelming majority would identify themselves as Kosovo Albanians, not Serbs. See, you would be right if Kosovans viewed themselves as Serbs. But the reality of the situation is, they do not have a national identity as Serbian.

As I said earlier, that would apply if Kosovo was a country on it's own when in fact it was not. It was a part of Serbia and those albaninans living in Kosovo where a minority. So if they didn't like it in SErbia they had their own country and could have left at anytime.

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Originally posted by Krypton 2. Voting in what, and with what equal rights? If I recall, the minority Serbs do have a role in the government of Kosovo, and are also protected by the law. It is they who abstained from voting for the declaration of independence.

Th Serbs where never given equal rights by this so called government. Votes by serbs where supposed to represent the precentegae of people in Kosovo who are serbs, but where only counted as 1 vote = 1 person, which would mean that the votes by the 10 serbian representatives would only represent those 10 people and not the rest of thserbs in Kosovo. That's why the serbs never wanted to participate.

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Originally posted by Krypton The UN peacekeeping force is still there probably because tensions are still very high. The possibility of a resumption of hostilities is still there, especially now.

Which further proves my piont that it is not a functional state.

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Originally posted by Krypton You sure didn't hesitate to respond now did you? I really didn't know how else to make it clear that you were making an issue out of a NON-ISSUE; hopefully the pictures helped at that.

This is the last response from me on this issue. As I posted earlier, I posted my opinion on the video and then dropped the whole thing, yet you brought it up over and over because, as you said, you just have to have the last word. As I stated earlier, those pictures just made you look more ignorant.

Skoob, none of this matters anymore. Kosovo declared independence. So what's next?

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This is the last response from me on this issue.

No it won't...

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As I posted earlier, I posted my opinion on the video and then dropped the whole thing, yet you brought it up over and over because, as you said, you just have to have the last word. As I stated earlier, those pictures just made you look more ignorant.

Am I supposed to let you insult your way out of your non-issues? The pictures made a point. CRY ME A RIVER!! I've never seen anyone react so strongly to a simple video being posted.

quote:

Originally posted by SkooB_E within 5 years what is now Kosovo will be known as northern Albanina

thats essentially why this is bullshit.

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Originally posted by Krypton Skoob, none of this matters anymore. Kosovo declared independence. So what's next?

I already posted on this in my very first post in this thread.

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Originally posted by RapidFire thats essentially why this is bullshit.

I'm curious to see how this will play out when albanians in Macedonia and Montenegro start talking about independence.

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Originally posted by SkooB_E I already posted on this in my very first post in this thread.

Ah yes.

What would you propose the Serbs could have done or do to reel in Kosovo?

It's very hard for a majority government to suppress a separatist minority government, especially when all the things needed for a functioning independent state are already in place, minus the withdrawal of foreign peacekeepers. Everything else is in place. What was Serbia to do???

There is nothing left to do now but to wait and see what will come of this, this is really the only option left for everyone involved.

As of what could have been done, well had there been any other government in Serbia then that of Milosevic's Serbia would never have been illegaly attacked by NATO in the first place and all attempts of independece would have been put down by the serbian government.

This was never about "protecting" albanians as it has been claimed, the only reason that happend was to get rid of Milosevic. What is happening today is just the result of that.

I have friends in Macedonia, and you guys won't believe what the ethnic Albanians are doing there right now ...

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I have friends in Macedonia, and you guys won't believe what the ethnic Albanians are doing there right now ...

Do tell do tell!!!

Albanians are trying to break apart all the countries around them. I still recall in 2001 there was a brief war in Macedonia between ethnic Albanians (who were bent on independence and splitting to Albania) and Macedonian government. Also, Greece and Montenegro have a substantial Albanian minority.

Basically here's a quote from my friend. He basically says that ethnic Albanians are celebrating in Macedonia right now, in the streets in the northwestern areas where they make up a huge portion:

"That's the irony: back in 1991 when Macedonia declared independence from Yugoslavia, the Macedo-Albanians were not on the streets of their own country to celebrate it's independence, they even boycotted the referendum. Yesterday they were celebrating the independence of a new-born foreign state (Kosovo), obviously loving it more than the state that is their motherland (Macedonia) where since ever they were in best position compared to the other Albanian regions on the Balkans (both Albania and ex-Yu).
BTW Why they celebrate Kosovo's independence waving a flag of Republic of Albania?"


There's a growing animosity between selfish and ignorant ethnic Albanians and other ethnic groups in the Balkans. Currently the situation has been resolved in the favour of Albanians, drawing bitter comments by the Serbians. Some Serb politicians have said such remarks like they will wait, grow stronger, and some day reclaim their province, the heartland of their history, with several prominent Serbian historic monuments located in Kosovo (including on their coins).

Basically what EU have done is set pace to a future conflict where ethnic Albanians will be slaughtered in a a huge war ... Kosovo is considered in Serbian history as a place of their national "awakening", if you read their history then you'll understand ... and judging by what Serbian politicians have said, Serbia will someday re-emerge through a war to reclaim its national glory. It will never forget this event. Ever. And will never accept.

So consider all these facts, and ask yourself - is this conflict, this dispute all settled and will peace finally come? Personally, I think things will now be much worse in the future. Without a doubt.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

FYI ...


Some of Serbia's most important historic monuments, cherished religious shrines are located within Kosovo that were part of Serbia for CENTURIES. Here are prominent Serbian historic and religious monuments (that I can think of) dear to Serbs that are trapped within Kosovo, that have been numerously desecrated, vandalized by the ethnic Albanians:

Visoki Deèani monastery

"is a major Serb Orthodox Christian monastery in the southern Serbian province of Kosovo, 12 km south of the town of Peæ. Its cathedral is the biggest medieval church in the Balkans which contains the largest preserved monument of Byzantine fresco-painting.

The monastery was established in a chestnut grove by King Stefan Deèanski in 1327. Its original founding charter is dated to 1330. The following year the king died and was buried at the monastery, which henceforth became his popular shrine. Indeed, the epithet Deèanski refers to the king's foundation of the monastery. The construction was continued by his son Stefan Dušan until 1335, but the wall-painting was not completed until 1350.

The cathedral, dedicated to Christ Pantocrator and built from blocks of red-purple, light-yellow and onyx marble, was constructed by master-builders under the Franciscan monk Vitus of Kotor. It is distinguished from other contemporary Serbian churches by its imposing dimensions and obvious Romanesque features. Its celebrated frescoes comprise some 1000 portraits and cover all major themes of the New Testament. The cathedral contains the original 14th-century wooden iconostasis, hegumen's throne and carved sarcophagus of King Stefan.

In 2004, UNESCO listed the monastery on the World Heritage List, citing its frescoes as "one of the most valued examples of the so-called Palaeologan renaissance in Byzantine painting" and "a valuable record of the life in the 14th century". In 2006, it was added to the List of World Heritage Sites in danger due to the potential for attacks by ethnic-Albanian partisans; it is protected by the United Nations' KFOR.

On March 30, 2007 an explosion was heard near the monastery. The explosion was confirmed by Serbian and international sources in Kosovo. Bishop Teodosije, the prior of the Visoki Deèani monastery, stated that the incident was a grenade attack on the monastery, with an objective of sending threatening messages to the monks and KFOR forces.

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The Patriarchate of Peæ is a Serbian Orthodox monastery located near Peæ, Kosovo, a Serbian province under UN administration. The complex of churches is the spiritual seat and mausoleum of the Serbian archbishops and patriarchs.

On July 13, 2006 it was placed on UNESCO's World Heritage List as an extension of the Visoki Deèani site which was overall placed on the List of World Heritage Sites in danger. Source: Wikipedia

The precise date of the foundation of the Patriarchate is unknown. It is thought that while Saint Sava was still alive that the site became a metoh (land owned and governed by a monastery) of Žièa monastery, then the seat of the Serbian archbishopric.

Archbishop Arsenije I built the Church of the Holy Apostles, as he wanted the seat of the Serbian Church to be at a more secure location and closer to the centre of the country. Soon, around 1250, he ordered it decoration. Archbishop Nikodim I built the Church of Saint Demetrius around 1320, north of the other church. A decade later, around 1330, his successor, Archbishop Danilo II built a third church, south of the original one - the Church of the Holy Virgin Hodegetria to the south of which he added the small Church of Saint Nicholas. In front of the three main churches, he then raised a monumental narthex. In front of the narthex he built a tower. In the time of Archbishop Joanakije II, around 1345, the hitherto undecorated Church of Saint Demetrius was decorated with frescoes.

During the 14th century, small modifications were made to Church of the Holy Apostles, so some parts were decorated later. From the 13th to the 15th century, and in the 17th century, the Serb Patriarchs and Archbishops of Peæ were buried in the churches of the Patriarchate.

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Graèanica monastery, AS DEPICTED ON SERBIAN 2 DINAR COINS!!!, is a Serbian Orthodox monastery located in the Serbian province of Kosovo. It was founded by king Stefan Milutin in 1321. On July 13, 2006 it was placed on UNESCO's World Heritage List under the name of Medieval Monuments in Kosovo which was overall placed on the List of World Heritage Sites in danger.

Graèanica Monastery is one of King Milutin's last monumental endowments. It is situated in the village of Graèanica, 5 km from Priština, the administrative centre of Kosovo. The monastery is in the close vicinity of Lipljan (ancient Roman town of Ulpiana), the old residence of bishops.


The paintings of Graèanica rank highest among the achievements of Milutin's period, characterized by influences of the Byzantine splendiferous and luxurious style called the Paleologan Renaissance. In terms of style, they are also related to the art of the other of Milutin's foundations.

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Our Lady of Ljeviš
is a 12th century Serbian Orthodox Church cathedral in the town of Prizren, Kosovo. It was converted into a mosque during the Ottoman Empire and then turn back into an Orthodox Church in early XX century.

On July 13, 2006 it was placed on UNESCO's World Heritage List as an extension of the Visoki Deèani site which was overall placed on the List of World Heritage Sites in danger.

The Church was guarded by KFOR soldiers between June 1999 and mid 2002. It was badly damaged by ethnic Albanian extremists on March 17, 2004 during a campaign of anti-Serbian rioting and persecution. A group of experts sponsored by the Council of Europe has visited the church several occasions to assess the damages, but no concrete steps have been taken. It is subject to constant lootings (the costly lead roof has been repeatedly stolen).


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MY POINT:

Kosovo, despite the wave of recognitions, is a failed state. It fails the criteria of a country. Kosovo, its leadership (former Albanian guerilla field commander) and its NATO backers have FAILED to protect the rights, homes, and historic treasures of the minorities, such as Serbs. They failed to protect Serbs from murder, (Podujevo Bus Bombing comes to mind!!! LOOK IT UP), failed to address their issues, rights. Kosovan Albanians have done NOTHING to deserve a state. What Serbia has done in Kosovo in 1980s / 1990s I opposed and criticized, but what has happened since 1999 is equally bad since it was ENDORSED by the Western countries. Ethnic cleansing, murder, destruction of cultural treasures, etc. - all of that is part of the big picture of the failure of EU, NATO and Albanians in Kosovo.

Plus, adding their double standards, hypocrisy and disregard for refugees (Palestine, anyone???), thats right - over 250,000 ethnic Serbians who have been forced to flee Kosovo since 1999.

We all watched on the world media in 1999 as NATO bombed Serbia (killing many civilians, mostly civilians, hitting hospitals, schools, homes, FOREIGN EMBASSIES (China), indiscriminately using cluster bombs - forbidden by Geneva conventions), watched and listened to the crying Albanian refugees how they were displaced by the Serbs. And now, its pretty much the other way. But there's no media to show this. It disgusts me ...

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture