Inevitably though, all anyone has to default to in order to criticize Favre fall into one of two categories:

01. Interceptions.
02. Only one a single championship.

The first I think is addressed rather nicely by the above discussion of the number of receivers he was forced to play with over the years (the Packers haven't had a "franchise" receiver since Sterling Sharpe), as well as by the shear number of attempts he made (granted this is a much weaker argument offput by other QB's with relatively similar numbers of attempts and fewer picks).

The second is just laughable at the onset. If greatness is measured in championships there are a lot of record holders out there who were clearly not great players by virtue of their inability to win a championship alone.

3 consecutive seasons as MVP alone puts him in a class with very few other players - but I'm sure those were all just flukes, right?

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by RJT And since when are records not meant to be broken?

some are meant to be broken, some will never be broken. i doubt we will ever see a NBA player score 100 like wilt or a MLB pitcher break Cy Young's career win record. as far as career records for qb's go, they will be broken since the league has a lot more rules in place to protect qbs.

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Does the fact that Favre stole all those records from Elway, Marino, Montana, etc. mean that their careers are worthless as well?

i never said someone's career is worthless if their record gets broken. i agree with butters about comparing the players to their peers. i really can't look at any point in favre's career where he was the clear dominate qb (he might have been the best but you could make a good arguement for another player also). to me, he was consistently in the top 3 but the other two qbs switched frequently. young and aikman were up there for awhile and then elway, manning, brady, warner.


on a side note: i miss the days when you would see qb's air it out 50+ yards down field all the time. when they would throw it out of the top of the screen just like in tecmo bowl.

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Originally posted by lucid pro tip: if you value your life, NEVER do anything that will place you "outside" of the jonze circle of trust.

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Originally posted by jonze i never said someone's career is worthless if their record gets broken. i agree with butters about comparing the players to their peers. i really can't look at any point in favre's career where he was the clear dominate qb (he might have been the best but you could make a good arguement for another player also). to me, he was consistently in the top 3 but the other two qbs switched frequently. young and aikman were up there for awhile and then elway, manning, brady, warner. on a side note: i miss the days when you would see qb's air it out 50+ yards down field all the time. when they would throw it out of the top of the screen just like in tecmo bowl.

Lol, Rick that wasn't really meant to imply you had said anything like that

And exactly what you stated (that at no point in his career was he necessarily the "dominant" QB in the league, but consistently top 3) is as good a reason as I can find to praise his career.

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Brett Favre is easily the most over-rated player in any sport of all-time.

Nah. That title belongs to Cal Ripken Jr.

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[11:58] Bas //: fuck he's hot

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Originally posted by verndogs Nah. That title belongs to Cal Ripken Jr.

ditto. he had 1 or 2 good seasons in the 80s and that's about it. yeah yeah mr. ironman at shortstop, but what kind of honor is that? shortstop doesn't run into much injuries anyways.

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Originally posted by verndogs Nah. That title belongs to Cal Ripken Jr.

eww....i don't know about that one either. the man hit 400+ homeruns. that's not an easy task, and in an age before SS's were doping up hitting 40-50 home runs a season. in his time he was an anomaly at SS.

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Originally posted by LeopoldStotch yeah yeah mr. ironman at shortstop, but what kind of honor is that? shortstop doesn't run into much injuries anyways.

whoa, whoa... hey now... SS and CF are the two most brutal positions.... even though I matured into a 2B as my career grew and ended... so i'm partial to saying 2B is the most demanding defensive position.... but SS is the field Commander and has a longer throw then 2B....

but anyway, WTF!?!?!? SS is demanding, end of my rant, thanks!

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lance

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Originally posted by RJT Name all the quarterbacks who are better, go on. I'd love to see the list, because there aren't very many names that are going to argue against this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_...er_achievements Sorry m8 - you can't argue numbers. *cue you posting the interception record - predictable response is predictable after all. Go on though - seriously, I'd love a good laugh. ... . . .

Granted, my list only includes QB's i've been fortunate enough to see play, so no Unitas, Starr, Bradshaw, etc... which 2 of those guys I'd put before Favre.. but anyway

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Manning
4. Marino
5. Elway
6. Young
7. Aikman
8. Hick boy, I mean Favre

thanks for playing!


and to the Numbers... why the FUCK would I argue with Numbers??? Brady set unbelievable numbers this year, so don't sit there and think i'm going to shit on his numbers!!!

yeah what? exactly... but fuck numbers, its all about winning!

and why would I attack Favre's INT habits??? Cause he's had NUMEROUS 1 TD, 4 INT games???? so what, everyone likes to throw the rock around on Sunday like a meathead... oh wait.... yeah he's #8!

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lance

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Originally posted by King Ecnal Granted, my list only includes QB's i've been fortunate enough to see play, so no Unitas, Starr, Bradshaw, etc... which 2 of those guys I'd put before Favre.. but anyway 1. Brady 2. Montana 3. Manning 4. Marino 5. Elway 6. Young 7. Aikman 8. Hick boy, I mean Favre thanks for playing! and to the Numbers... why the FUCK would I argue with Numbers??? Brady set unbelievable numbers this year, so don't sit there and think i'm going to shit on his numbers!!! yeah what? exactly... but fuck numbers, its all about winning! and why would I attack Favre's INT habits??? Cause he's had NUMEROUS 1 TD, 4 INT games???? so what, everyone likes to throw the rock around on Sunday like a meathead... oh wait.... yeah he's #8!

all great quarterbacks have a great wide receiver(s) to throw to. if he doesn't have that privilege, putting up big numbers with average talent is even better in my books.

1. Brady - i have to say. he did put some good numbers with guys like patten, troy brown, and deion branch(a decent wide receiver in my books) before he had welker and moss.
2. Montana - before he had rice and taylor, he was putting up decent numbers with dwight clark, and who can forget that remarkable catch by dwight clark in the back of the end zone against the cowboys in the playoffs?
3. Manning - what he's doing with harrison and wayne is pretty good. i do recall manning putting up not so good numbers before there was wayne. however, these past couple of years he's been having erases those thoughts for me.
4. Marino - i do have to say he's up there for me, because he had to throw the ball to people like mark clayton and mark duper, and run an offense with NO running attack whatsoever his entire career.
5. Elway - he's up there for me too. decent wide receivers like rod smith, vance johnson, and shannon sharpe, but all those great comeback victories he performed in the 80s did it for me.
6. Young - those great years he had in the mid 90s is all he has in the books. a good mobile quarterback, but he inhertied an already powerhouse system given to him by montana. i don't really consider him one of the greats. sorry.
7. Aikman - i can't put him on the list. there are many reasons why i can't put him on the greats list, such as dallas having a very powerful defense in the early 90s, emmitt smith, novacek, irvin, and harper. everything was practically handfed to him, and all he had to do was not screw up.
8. Hick boy, I mean Favre - already been discussed.



....

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Originally posted by LeopoldStotch 4. Marino - i do have to say he's up there for me, because he had to throw the ball to people like mark clayton and mark SUPER duper, and run an offense with NO running attack whatsoever his entire career.

i corrected your post a little bit. don't forget that he completed a pass at his HOF induction ceremony.

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Originally posted by lucid pro tip: if you value your life, NEVER do anything that will place you "outside" of the jonze circle of trust.

Well if it's about winning then Joe Montana is the best QB ever. 4 Super Bowl rings. Brady only has 3. In my book, Montana is the best. Brady didn't exactly set the world on fire in the last super bowl.....

Manning is better than Favre. Marino yes. Elway yes. Aikman? Uhh no way.

Montana
Manning
Brady (great O line helped him for many years, he didn't look so hot in the face of a serious pass rush)
Elway
Marino
Favre

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ok, I can admit... after Elway at #5... Aikman and Young were just thrown in to help my case... but even so.. Favre is not top 5... #6 perhaps... but thats not top 5!

end of discussion, thanks!

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lance