quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Right, but the tone you take is the following: "Palestinians blow up markets because of Israeli aggression. Israeli tanks knock down homes because of evil Zionist imperials!" That to me is a pretty one-sided diagnosis of the cycle of violence. What would be more even-handed would be something like: "It's wrong and inexcusable when Palestinian militants strap bombs to their chests, just as it's wrong and inexcusable when Israeli jets launch missiles into apartment complexes." I know you don't like the violence, but you're implicitly condoning one form of it while condemning another, and I don't think that's what you mean to do.

Of course I don't condone any form of violence. My main argument is the Israeli occupation is the reason for the turmoil in the region. Palestinians are a part of the problem, BUT, the root of the problem is with the occupation.

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Originally posted by Krypton Of course I don't condone any form of violence. My main argument is the Israeli occupation is the reason for the turmoil in the region. Palestinians are a part of the problem, BUT, the root of the problem is with the occupation.

I don't agree - I think it's impossible to locate the real root cause at this point. Occupation of land in the West Bank and Gaza didn't begin with partition - it was in part a disproportional response to initial Palestinian militants and security threats from other Arab states.

I really think this is a situation where putting all the blame in one basket does nobody any good.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I don't agree - I think it's impossible to locate the real root cause at this point.

That's the most profound horseshit I've ever heard from you thus far.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's the most profound horseshit I've ever heard from you thus far.

When you aren't insulting and ranting against other members, what value do you bring to this sub-forum?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's the most profound horseshit I've ever heard from you thus far.

i've never had a political discussion with a more self-righteous person. you are clearly incorrigible to a huge fault.

Q5echo said it best:

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don't make me laugh with all this righteous indignation and psuedo-intellectual smokescreen crap.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I don't agree - I think it's impossible to locate the real root cause at this point. Occupation of land in the West Bank and Gaza didn't begin with partition - it was in part a disproportional response to initial Palestinian militants and security threats from other Arab states. I really think this is a situation where putting all the blame in one basket does nobody any good.

It would have been nice if the Arabs had accepted the relatively generous UN Partition Plan, but they didn't, and they really did screw themselves over by trying to invade. Now, withdrawl from all pre-1967 lands should be on the table for peace. But it's not. The Zionist settlers occupy 40% of the West Bank, and dominate the water table of the region. How is militantism supposed to die down with so much suffering. With every new generation born into occupation, a new generation of militants is created. Does Israel really expect to live in peace in such circumstances? I find it shameful that they do.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov When you aren't insulting and ranting against other members, what value do you bring to this sub-forum?

I never insult someone with out them stiring shit up in the first place, so spare me the BS Leb. Or unless they're demonstrating a sickening degree of hypocrisy and an absolutely appaling double standard. It's really simple, don't dish it out if you can't take it.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I never insult someone with out them stiring shit up in the first place, so spare me the BS Leb. Or unless they're demonstrating a sickening degree of hypocrisy and an absolutely appaling double standard. It's really simple, don't dish it out if you can't take it.

So I suppose this means that you are going to stop whining about being followed every time I post in a thread that I disagree with you?

Or are you going to take that page out of the Trancer-X playbook as well?

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Originally posted by Krypton It would have been nice if the Arabs had accepted the relatively generous UN Partition Plan, but they didn't, and they really did screw themselves over by trying to invade. Now, withdrawl from all pre-1967 lands should be on the table for peace. But it's not. The Zionist settlers occupy 40% of the West Bank, and dominate the water table of the region. How is militantism supposed to die down with so much suffering. With every new generation born into occupation, a new generation of militants is created. Does Israel really expect to live in peace in such circumstances? I find it shameful that they do.

Yes, this I agree with, though I don't think the Israelis are necessarily satisfied with the status quo either. Prior to the Intifada, withdrawal to the 1967 borders was on the table, but has since been taken back. And with the news today that more Israeli settlements have been granted approval, chances of this happening are growing more distant.

I did, however, find this op-ed by King Hussein of Jordan to be immensely optimistic:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/king-...n-_b_89205.html

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So I suppose this means that you are going to stop whining about being followed every time I post in a thread that I disagree with you? Or are you going to take that page out of the Trancer-X playbook as well?

Everytime? Once qualifies as everytime? You being a naggin whining prick is one thing, but don't make shit up. Like the Obama thread for example, where you asserted a previous "tirade" about the CFR, eventhought it was the first time I think I ever even mentioned it on this forum. Again, please do shut the fuck up. You invite the kind of responses you get just about every time with your BS posts, then get all butthurt and acusatory. It really quite lame and pathetic.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z You invite the kind of responses you get just about every time with your BS posts, then get all butthurt and acusatory. It really quite lame and pathetic.

Haha, dude, you're a long way away from getting under my skin. I just think you're delusional and I relish the opportunity to point that out.

I'm sorry that you think my posts are BS though. Before I hit "Submit Reply" next time, I will ask myself "Would shaolin_Z agree with this?" and follow from there.

Cheers.

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