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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
and sadly his trick worked and Harper extended "the mission".


What trick??

Do you really think Canadians are that dumb? Sheesh.


___________________
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The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Old Post Jun-19-2008 04:45  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i dont see it as unjustified.


So how is a justified?



quote:
so?


What do you mean "so"? If they didn't know, they didn't do it. No justification to invade. HELLO?

quote:
oh yes, i forgot. the taliban, centre for (modern) legal fairness and impartiality!

as they should have.


The offer was rejected as it should have been.

quote:
yeah, so they decided to change their mind once the war began, so what? the calls for "evidence" are a complete smokescreen, would you like me to go searching for all the punishments metered out under the taliban that wouldn't have been satisfied by the evidence?

i cant believe youre falling for their bullshit.


I never said the Taliban justice system was up to international standards. I see it completely reasonable to ask for bin Laden's extradition!

quote:
everyone knew osama did it. hell, i knew as soon as the second plane hit the towers. the taliban fucking knew too, you are absolutely kidding yourself if youre arguing they didn't know. they even forced him to lie and say it wasn't him. the taliban knew that al qaida were retreating into the mountains in anticipation of US retaliation, they were retreating because their conscience was clear perhaps?


Do you honestly think the Taliban would want to fight the United States military!? Go after Al-Qaida. FINE! Start occupying foreign countries. HELL NO!

quote:
ooohhhh, right. so youre saying that not only was the pipeline the #1 reason for the invasion, but it was so damned important that they didn't bother to secure the country before moving onto iraq so that now they can't build their pipeline? seriously, you need to lay off the trancer-x fruit juice. nothing youre saying makes any sense.


Never said a pipeline was the #1 reason for the invasion. Straw man argument. I said, "It has everything to do with securing a strategic position in energy supplies."

quote:
they're fighting to restore law and order in the country, as well as stamping out terrorist influence. yes, its that simple. otherwise they'd have a controlled military zone in the region of the pipeline.

the only pipe here is the one you're smoking.


Fighting to restore law and order? You mean the law & order which was destroyed by NATO? The only terrorists were Al-Qaida. It seems like this War on Terrorism likes to focus on regime-change instead of bringing to justice the REAL terrorists. Deposed the Taliban, deposed Saddam, Osama bin Laden...alive and well 7 years after the 9/11 attacks. Fighting to restore law and order in Afghanistan. That makes me chuckle... Let's fight for law and order in Zimbabwe too. Oh, forgot. No oil! No strategic position like central Asia!

quote:
and what interests are you talking about? you keep banging on about a fictitious pipeline that isn't even in its infancy, do you have any more than that. you ignore the fact that they have been asked to stay by the duly elected government.


Geopolitical interests. Ensuring energy supplies for the Western bloc.
Fictitious pipeline? No. I already gave terms to search by. Stay? Fine. But fight their battles? No.

quote:
yeah, everyone would be much happier with the taliban back in charge im sure.


As I said, we are not here to fight other people's wars.

quote:
simplistic and disingenuous nonsense. just easily-delivered rhetoric devoid of any actual substance.


Oh, and "fighting for freedom" isn't simplistic or rhetorical in the least bit!

quote:
and anyone that thinks so really needs to grow the fuck up.



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Old Post Jun-19-2008 05:00  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
You know we're there BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED TO BE THERE...

Maybe you forgot this speech by Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai given at the House of Commons thanking us?

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/media_gallery.a...edia_id=448#tag


Big friggin deal ...

Well, DUH, he better be thanking us! I can't imagine him saying otherwise.

I bet the Iraqi puppet leadership is very thankful too.

Yes, lets send more Canadian troops to their deaths ... but seriously, how many more years will it take to see that the Afghan situation is hopeless? Cant you guys see that Pakistan is the main factor for the growing instability in Afghanistan? Our (Canadian) duty should not be to fight someone else's war, seriously.


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Old Post Jun-19-2008 05:18  Canada
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
So how is a justified?


the taliban were a dispicable regime and i would have supported the invasion with or without 911, and the taliban gave refuge to an army that had declared war against the united states. that's what you get when you lie down with dogs.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
What do you mean "so"? If they didn't know, they didn't do it. No justification to invade. HELLO?


still not caring. i really dont. the taliban are gone, they deserved to be ousted. whether they were instrumental in the attacks or not is irrelevant.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I never said the Taliban justice system was up to international standards. I see it completely reasonable to ask for bin Laden's extradition!


you are kidding yourself if you believe that the taliban made any serious offer to deliver bin laden. i wonder if they make these types of offers so well-to-do wet-behind-the-ears US students can then post them on forums.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Do you honestly think the Taliban would want to fight the United States military!?


well they did didnt they?

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Go after Al-Qaida. FINE! Start occupying foreign countries. HELL NO!


they are there at the invitation of the afghani government. i know this must really stick in your craw but that's the way it is.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Never said a pipeline was the #1 reason for the invasion. Straw man argument. I said, "It has everything to do with securing a strategic position in energy supplies."


yes, and the only strategic position you have mentioned in relation to afghanistan is this illusory pipeline.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Fighting to restore law and order? You mean the law & order which was destroyed by NATO?


i love how you keep trying to score tiny, irrelevant points that i dont care about. yes, NATO destabilised the region. yes, i think it was a good thing. you're looking at this question from all the wrong angles. that's ok, i was a young undergraduate once too, but you'll grow out of it.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
The only terrorists were Al-Qaida. It seems like this War on Terrorism likes to focus on regime-change instead of bringing to justice the REAL terrorists.


you dont seem to know about, or are blatantly ignoring the relationship between al qaida and the taliban. al qaida werent hanging around in afghanistan "by mistake". the taliban were in cahoots with al qaida, yes its that simple.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Deposed the Taliban, deposed Saddam, Osama bin Laden...alive and well 7 years after the 9/11 attacks. Fighting to restore law and order in Afghanistan. That makes me chuckle...


yeah, well we can point to thousands of allied troops fighting for "law and order" and you can't provide a single piece of evidence that they're really fighting for your imaginary pipeline.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Let's fight for law and order in Zimbabwe too. Oh, forgot. No oil! No strategic position like central Asia!


yeah, coz afghanistan is just brimming with natural resources

these arguments in particular really shit me. "well, you've invaded one nation, why dont you invade the other 150 that have problems?" seriously, grow up.

and for the record, i most certainly agree with a military intervention in zimbabwe.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Geopolitical interests. Ensuring energy supplies for the Western bloc.


really? last time i checked oil was a commodity traded on the open market, and sold to anybody and everybody. how exactly is the west guaranteeing their energy concerns in a country that has no oil, and with a pipeline that is nothing more than a line on a map currently?

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Fictitious pipeline? No. I already gave terms to search by.


oh, so its real is it? could you tell me exactly where its built?

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
As I said, we are not here to fight other people's wars.


yes, we should just let people suffer and die under despotic rule because our tender little soldiers are more important than the lives of civilians in afghanistan.

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Oh, and "fighting for freedom" isn't simplistic or rhetorical in the least bit!


where did i say "fighting for freedom" ?

the sooner you graduate and deal with the real world for a bit the better off we'll all be. the world really doesn't revolve around all these clandestine conspiracies you seem to be so fond of adopting.

i can't believe you favour a taliban afghanistan over the elected government that has asked the allied forces to remain. just incredible.


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Old Post Jun-19-2008 05:21  Australia
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
What trick??

Do you really think Canadians are that dumb? Sheesh.


Canadian people arent dumb but our government unfortunatly is when it comes down to our recent policies in the middle east.


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Old Post Jun-19-2008 05:31 
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

pkcRAISTLIN I'd like to know how see the current in Afghanistan.To many of us it is a big disaster and it is getting worse.It is good to have a optimistic attitude towards the situation but the reality speaks for itself.I honestly dont think things have changes that musch in that coutry since the fall of the Taliban regime,yes the people there certainly have more freedom then before,but the country still lacks basic things like security,education and economy.

The roots of the whole Taliban situation that we face today in Afghanistan goes back to Pakistan and we arent doing much about it for obvous reasons like the fact that Pakistan is one of US's allies in the region.So once again we face yet another double standard politics of the US government.

If we are actually there to fight the Islamic fundamentalism we are going to fail since we are fighting an ideology and no force or weapons can stop ideology and I think you know that as well.


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Old Post Jun-19-2008 05:43 
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

PKC, once again we are bitterly divided. I'll end this debate by saying we both got our points across..


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Old Post Jun-19-2008 21:35  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



First, Pakistan needs to be taken care of. Until then the situation in Afghanistan will be fruitless, and international troops will continue dying for keeping the regime in power.

If not worse, if Musharraf loses power grip to the radicals, then imagine how that would reflect on Afghanistan.


___________________
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Old Post Jun-19-2008 22:50  Canada
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



Oh, here's that article about women that I wanted to post, but couldn't find it. There's another similar article on women's chances in running independent and successful lives in Afghanistan, but I still have to find it.

Hail to the human rights (progress) in Afghanistan! Our Canadian boys have surely made a difference!

http://www.thespec.com/article/362749

Abused Afghan women often end up in jail if they complain to police

quote:

May 01, 2008
Alisa Tang, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
The Canadian Press, 2008

JALALABAD, Afghanistan - Trafficked across the border from Pakistan with her three-year-old son, Rukhma was handed to an Afghan who raped and abused her, then beat the toddler to death as she watched helplessly.

He was jailed for 20 years for murder but Rukhma ended up in prison too.

Rukhma, who doesn't know her age but looks younger than 20, had put up with her mistreatment for three months last summer before seeking protection and justice from authorities. Instead, she was given a four-year sentence on Dec. 5 for adultery and "escaping her house" in Pakistan, even though she says she was kidnapped and raped.

The fall of the Taliban six years ago heralded new rights for Afghan women: to go to school or get a job, and be protected under the law. Women's rights are now enshrined in the constitution.

Yet except for a small urban elite, a woman fleeing domestic violence or accusing a man of rape herself often ends up the guilty party in the eyes of judges and prosecutors.

"Why am I here? I'm innocent," Rukhma said, crying in a musty jail cell and cradling a baby daughter by her previous marriage whom she bore in prison. "It is cruel to have your son killed before your eyes and then to be imprisoned."

In parts of Afghanistan and neighbouring Pakistan, where stern social codes prevail, a woman who runs away from home is typically suspected of having taken a lover and can be prosecuted for adultery. Simply leaving her house without her family's permission may be deemed an offence - as in Rukhma's case - although it is not classified as such under Afghanistan's penal code.

The chief prosecutor of eastern Nangarhar province who oversaw Rukhma's case suggested she got off lightly.

"If my wife goes to the bazaar without my permission, I will kill her. This is our culture," Abdul Qayum shouted scornfully during an interview in his office in the city of Jalalabad.

His colleagues laughed approvingly. "This is Afghanistan, not America," Qayum said.

The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission registered 2,374 cases of women complaining of violence in 2007, compared with 1,651 in 2006 - a sign that more are seeking help.

Family response units have been established in the police force, and there are tentative signs of sympathy in officialdom - at least in the relatively liberal capital, Kabul.

At a Kabul hospital, a 16-year old girl who is too scared to give her name is recuperating from reconstructive surgery after her husband cut off her nose and ears, bashed out all but six of her teeth with a stone, and poured boiling water on her.

In-laws from southern Zabul province want to take the girl home but the hospital director refuses to hand her over.

"This brother-in-law comes every day. He says, 'Let me take her home. She's OK now,' " Dr. Ghairat Mal said. "I don't trust him. The Ministry of Women's Affairs brought her to us, and I won't let her go unless they take her."

Kamala Janakiram, a UN human rights officer in eastern Afghanistan, said that in 70 to 80 per cent of the cases she has seen, a woman complaining of domestic violence is charged as a criminal for running away from home.

The UN Office on Drugs and Crime said many rape victims are forced to marry their attackers or are jailed for adultery because proving rape is virtually impossible.

Women can end up in prison simply on the basis of gossip, said Manizha Naderi, the director of Women for Afghan Women, an aid organization. "It's a horrible, horrible practice."

Fear of returning to a violent spouse drives some women to suicide.

Janakiram cited the case of a young village woman in Laghman province who was shot by her husband and left to die.

She survived, but the provincial judge refused to hear her plea for a divorce and insisted that local elders resolve the matter.

Janakiram said the woman was so scared of being forced to return to her abusive husband that on Jan. 30, she set herself ablaze in front of the Laghman court. She had burns on 98 per cent of her body and died a week later.

Naderi told of a 16-year-old girl kidnapped from her engagement party by three men and raped, after which her fiance called off the engagement.

"The whole village blacklisted her and said, 'It's your fault. Why did you go with them?' She was a lost soul because she was raped," Naderi said.

Rather than approach police, some women seek a reconciliation through village elders or aid organizations.

Orzala Ashraf, an Afghan women's rights activist, said that usually gets the woman home but can leave her vulnerable to abuse or even death at the hands of male relatives bent on saving family honour.

"The woman will be more humiliated than before because she violated the family rules: You never discuss family problems outside the family circle," Ashraf said.

Rukhma, who goes by only one name, is still hoping an appeals court will free her.

Sitting on the prison floor with a black scarf over her hair and shoulders, she described being married in Pakistan as a preteen to an abusive man, who fathered her son, Bilal.

She said she divorced him and married another Pakistani man by whom she became pregnant last year. Then, she says, a female neighbour kidnapped her and delivered her to an Afghan man named Yarul who claimed her as his wife and raped her for three months.

One day she overheard Yarul finalizing a deal to sell her to another man, who wanted her but not her son.

Scared of losing Bilal, she ran away one day late last summer. When Yarul found her and took her home, he beat her and the toddler relentlessly.

She said the boy was placed under a blanket, barely conscious, blood dripping from his mouth.

"When I lifted the blanket, he looked up and saw his mother. I could see that those were going to be his last breaths, and then he died. That was the last time we looked each other in the eyes," she said, her voice cracking, her face crumpled in grief. As she cried, so did the newborn daughter of her second marriage, lying in her lap.

When police came to arrest Yarul, they arrested her, too.

The prosecutor, Qayum, acknowledges that Rukhma was raped by Yarul but still maintains she shares the blame.

"She spent several nights with the man," he said. "She committed adultery. It was rape, but the woman is also guilty."


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jul-07-2008 21:37  Canada
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



This was last year's, but the updated one this year shows no signs of drug production slowing down:

http://www.thespec.com/article/240001

Afghan opium production hits record; UN blames insurgency, corruption


quote:

August 27, 2007
FISNIK ABRASHI
The Canadian Press, 2007

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Afghan opium poppy cultivation exploded to a record high this year, with the multibillion-dollar trade fuelled by the Taliban insurgency and corrupt officials in President Hamid Karzai's government, a UN report said Monday.

Afghanistan has opium growing on 193,000 hectares of land, a 17 per cent increase from last year's then-record 165,000 hectares, according to an annual survey by the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime.

"The situation is dramatic and getting worse by the day," said Antonio Maria Costa, the UNODC's executive director.

The country now accounts for 93 per cent of the global production of opium, the raw material for heroin, and has doubled its output since two years ago, the report said.

"No other country in the world has ever had such a large amount of farmland used for illegal activity, beside China 100 years ago," when it was a major opium producer, Costa said in an interview in Kabul.

The report did not say how much of the opium gets made into heroin in Afghanistan before being smuggled out. However, an RCMP official said earlier this month that heroin made from Afghan opium now accounts for 60 per cent of the illicit drug on Canadian streets.

Karzai last year rejected U.S. offers to spray this year's crop after Afghans said the herbicide could affect livestock, crops and water supplies - fears the U.S. calls unfounded.

Costa said the UN supports the government's position, but added that crop eradication was a key element of any strategy to combat its growth.

Afghanistan is on track to produce 8,100 tonnes of opium this year, up 34 per cent from 6,000 tonnes in 2006, Costa said.

The farm value of Afghanistan's annual crop is about US$1 billion, the UN survey said. The street value of the heroin produced from it is many times higher.

While the number of poppy-free provinces in the country's north has increased from six in 2006 to 13 in 2007, production in the insurgency-hit southern provinces has exploded to unprecedented levels.

In Helmand province alone, 103,000 hectares are under cultivation accounting for more than half of the national total.

"The government has lost control of this territory because of the presence of the insurgents, because of the presence of the terrorists, whether Taliban or splinter al-Qaida groups," Costa said.

Before it was driven from power in the U.S. invasion in 2001, the Taliban strongly curbed opium cultivation. Now it uses money from the drug trade to help finance the insurgency.

"It is clearly documented now that insurgents actively promote or allow and then take advantage of the cultivation, refining and the trafficking of opium," Costa said.

Taliban rebels levy a tax on farmers and also provide protection for convoys smuggling opium into neighbouring countries, Costa said.

Some 3.3 million of Afghanistan's estimated 25 million people are involved in producing the opium, according to the report.

Costa said there was a "tremendous amount of collusion" between traffickers and government officials.

"The government's benign tolerance of corruption is undermining the future: no country has ever built prosperity on crime," Costa said in a summary of the report.

Gen. Khodaidad, Afghanistan's acting counter-narcotics minister, acknowledged that the counter-narcotics strategy has failed in the country's south and west, which he blamed on bad local officials, poor policing, failure in eradication and open borders with Iran to the west and Pakistan to the east.

Khodaidad, who like many Afghans goes by only one name, said the government needs to review its strategy at an upcoming national conference Wednesday.

He said inefficient and corrupt local officials should be threatened with dismissal and those who curbed the production and trade should be rewarded.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jul-07-2008 22:07  Canada
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



This one just tops it all off. Case closed. Afghanistan is just a killing field for our Canadian troops ... spilling blood ... for nothing.

http://www.thespec.com/article/367038

Afghan corruption rampant

quote:

2008
Toronto Star
KABUL (May 10, 2008)
In the past 20 months, Attorney General Abdul Jabar Sabet has arrested some 300 top-echelon Afghan officials and charged them with corruption.

"Ask me how many of them are in jail."

How many of them are in jail?

"Not one."


There is the chronic malady of Afghanistan in a nutshell. Justice is a mug's game, the rule of law more useless than the paper it's written on.

Not a single authority in the nation, right up into the president's office, has the clout to oppose a powerful alignment of forces that are a law unto themselves: warlords, ministers, parliamentarians, the military, police, tribal elders and wealthy entrepreneurs who are making a killing in the free-for-all of multi-billion-dollar international aid, a tsunami of cash that has made tycoons out of two-bit larcenists and filchers.

"It is very frustrating," sighs Sabet.

"In theory, I have the power to arrest anyone in this country if he's involved in corruption. But in practice, there are some people who are above the law, unfortunately, and I cannot bring them to justice.

"I call them The Untouchables."

They are in the central government, the provincial governments, the district centres, police stations, army garrisons, the banks, the aid agencies -- not a sector of Afghan society is without contamination of corruption.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jul-07-2008 22:12  Canada
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:


NATO, including Canada, and its allies, need to make notes and learn from the Soviet experience in Afghanistan or suffer a similar defeat.

http://ago.mobile.globeandmail.com/...nlessons12.html

quote:

Canada takes notes from failed Soviet war
STEVEN CHASE
From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Saturday, July 12

OTTAWA — The Canadian military has been studying the Soviet debacle in Afghanistan for clues on how to prevent similar mistakes as NATO tries to beat back a persistent insurgency and ready the country's weak but pro-Western government to assume greater control.

It began a research project in 2006, a year in which fighting intensified for Canada in the war against the Taliban.

“The project was undertaken … for the purpose of determining whether this history offered any lessons to be learned for the Canadian Forces,” an executive summary of some of the research said.

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979, and pulled out combat forces in 1989 after a costly decade of fighting mujahedeen. They left behind a weak, pro-Soviet government that collapsed in 1992.

By the time the Department of National Defence began its research project, Canadian soldiers had been fighting Taliban insurgents for nearly half a decade without subduing them, a 2007 Forces paper notes.

“Despite many successes … the insurgency against the government of Afghanistan, the U.S. troops and [North Atlantic Treaty Organization forces] persisted.”

Many of the research findings are lessons that, by 2008, the Canadian Forces, NATO soldiers and Western governments had already gleaned through experience in Afghanistan and other foreign missions.

Researchers said the Afghanistan-Pakistan border is a major hindrance. The mujahedeen used the porous frontier to smuggle arms and resources into Afghanistan in the 1980s and are offering Taliban supporters the same supply route for insurgents and weapons today.

“The movement of insurgents and materiel across the Afghan-Pakistan border is a paramount strategic problem,” says a 2007 memorandum by Anton Minkov and Gregory Smolynec titled 3-D Soviet Style: A Presentation on Lessons Learned from the Soviet Experience in Afghanistan.

In a separate memo that year, the same authors warn that NATO forces will never be able to stabilize Afghanistan until the country's economy is sufficiently stable and growing to allow the fledging Afghan government to cover a substantial amount of its own security and welfare bills.

“The main reasons behind the fall of the pro-Moscow regime in Kabul were not defeat on the battlefield nor military superiority of the resistance but the regime's failure to achieve economic sustainability and its overreliance on foreign aid,” says a document called Economic Development in Afghanistan during the Soviet Period 1979-1989: Lessons Learned from the Soviet Experience in Afghanistan.

In fact, it says, the Soviets focused too much on security.

“The emphasis on the security situation in Afghanistan compromised sound economic development during the period 1979-1989 … The Afghan economy continued to be overly dependent on foreign aid. The study argues that without breaking this dependency, no long-term solution to stabilize Afghanistan is possible.”

The authors say Afghanistan should redevelop its petroleum wealth as part of the solution. “Revenues from the sale of natural gas were a substantial part of Afghan state income until 1986. The development of oil and natural gas industries has great potential to benefit the Afghan economy.”

Other lessons Defence researchers gleaned from the Soviet period include:

– “Successive battlefield victories do not guarantee strategic success.”

– “Engaging and enfranchising local populations and power centres is of critical importance.”

– “Building Afghan security forces is vital.”

The research was conducted by the Department of National Defence's Centre for Operational Research & Analysis.

The DND said it was unable to make the researchers available for comment yesterday.

Canada has been sending soldiers to Afghanistan continually since 2001, and so far, 880 NATO troops have died in the fight against the Taliban, including 87 Canadians.

The U.S. has recently signalled that it is “deeply troubled” by the Taliban's continued power with a recent Pentagon report saying militias have “coalesced into a resilient insurgency.”

Douglas Bland, chair of Defence Management Studies at Queen's University in Kingston, said a key lesson from the 1980s is not to leave in a hurried manner as the Soviets did.

“One of the big lessons for us is, don't beat a hasty uncontrolled retreat because the place then really goes nuts,” Prof. Bland said. “The exit strategy has to be some very carefully considered process and based on a strong local security situation.”

He said he thinks Canadian soldiers will still be responsible for safeguarding the peace well after 2011, when Canada's troops are supposed to withdraw from combat operations in the country's southern province of Kandahar under a motion passed in Parliament.

“Canadians should be prepared for the fact that Canadian soldiers and policemen and others will be employed in security duties in Afghanistan for a very long time.”

He said he thinks the Forces have done other studies of the Soviet experience in Afghanistan, but said these may not be publicly available.



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