Even if we do/did win, Its to little to late at this point, the U.S. has suffered and lost the world opinion over all and looks like the bad guy and bully at this point. And you really cant claim victory yet, looks of winning and won are 2 different things.

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Kill 1 Person thats Murder, kill 100,000 People thats foriegn policy!

I'm not a RADICAL nationalist, but I'd take that any day over being a moderate socialist like Krypton is.

The Iraq invasion was one that was misleading to the public and mishandled by President Bush. But we are in it, and we must finish responsibly, and with our own honor at heart.

Fuck what the world thinks, we need a president who is gonna do what he believes is right! Not a lying, opportunity taking individual who will make decisions based on political expediency.

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Originally posted by Atmos we need a president who is gonna do what he believes is right! Not a lying, opportunity taking individual who will make decisions based on political expediency.

Thats not possible. USA is afterall a capitalist country.

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Originally posted by Atmos I'm not a RADICAL nationalist, but I'd take that any day over being a moderate socialist like Krypton is. The Iraq invasion was one that was misleading to the public and mishandled by President Bush. But we are in it, and we must finish responsibly, and with our own honor at heart. Fuck what the world thinks, we need a president who is gonna do what he believes is right! Not a lying, opportunity taking individual who will make decisions based on political expediency.

You apparently are, if not a radical nationalist, close to it. The view that world opinion should not be respected, yea, that's pretty nationalist..And if we don't have to respect world opinion, why should Russia? Why should China? It's a two way street...

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My point is that some people care too much. While China's air is full of smog, and Russia lets their submarines full of nuclear waste decompose in the ocean we have environmentalists slowing down our growth opportunities. And yea I'm very nationalist, is that such a bad thing? Is it not better than criticizing everything and saying 'our government is a piece of shit'?

And by saying we need someone who is gonna do something he believes is right and not for political expediency I'm referring to Obama.

McCain has long quarreled with his own party because he speaks out and isn't afraid to take risks. We need someone with a strong character and morals at heart; someone who would risk taking heat to accomplish what must be accomplished.

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Originally posted by Atmos And yea I'm very nationalist, is that such a bad thing? Is it not better than criticizing everything and saying 'our government is a piece of shit'? .

Yes it is. Moderation is key, leaning to far either way is never good.

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Originally posted by Moongoose Yes it is. Moderation is key, leaning to far either way is never good.

I'm not an extremist either man. I don't preach American pride and whatnot, but I sure as hell defend this country.

I'd say most of the time being a blind idiot is worse for your country than being critical. Actually change that to all of the time.

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I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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Originally posted by Atmos My point is that some people care too much. While China's air is full of smog, and Russia lets their submarines full of nuclear waste decompose in the ocean we have environmentalists slowing down our growth opportunities. And yea I'm very nationalist, is that such a bad thing? Is it not better than criticizing everything and saying 'our government is a piece of shit'? And by saying we need someone who is gonna do something he believes is right and not for political expediency I'm referring to Obama. McCain has long quarreled with his own party because he speaks out and isn't afraid to take risks. We need someone with a strong character and morals at heart; someone who would risk taking heat to accomplish what must be accomplished.

You can be a nationalist all you want. In fact, I love this country very much, as a nationalist. But when nationalism becomes a disrespect for world opinion or for rights of the people, then it becomes radical, and dangerous. You said, "Fuck what the world thinks." Obviously, you care nothing for world opinion. You seem to take nationalism to a higher level beyond simple love of country. I like to call that radical..

Loving your country does not mean loving your government. This country was founded on a suspicion of the state. The constitution is created to keep the power with the people, and take away from the state. I believe radical nationalists, who have unquestioned loyalty of the government, are more dangerous to this country than anything Al-Qaida could possibly do. It is you people who would watch this country slide into a police state with a smile on your face! As Latinlover says, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

This country needs judgment, fuck character. That's all you right wingers care about. Character. Character ain't shit when it comes to launching a war. We need judgment. Hitler had a lot of character, but obviously lacked in judgment, GREATLY...

I can criticize the government all I want, because guess what, the government sucks ass. The government is taking this country IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. I have every right to launch a revolution if I wanted to when the state crosses its boundary of authority. The Founding Fathers were probably the greatest liberal progressive REVOLUTIONARIES this country will ever have. I hate the government. The only thing it should exist for is to protect life, liberty, and property. Otherwise fuck it.

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Originally posted by Krypton The only thing it should exist for is to protect life, liberty, and property. Otherwise fuck it.

Wait...isnt that what the liberals of today are NOT ? Pro-abortion, sorry, "Pro-Choice", foreign pushovers, and for redistribution?

Face it...todays liberals are nothing like the founding fathers.

I have no problem with moderate liberatarianism, but Obama leftists scare the shit outta me.

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Originally posted by Atmos Wait...isnt that what the liberals of today are NOT ? Pro-abortion, sorry, "Pro-Choice", foreign pushovers, and for redistribution? Face it...todays liberals are nothing like the founding fathers. I have no problem with moderate liberatarianism, but Obama leftists scare the shit outta me.

Pro-abortion? How about everyone minding their own business and let the woman do with her body what she wants. It's none of our business, let alone the government. Today's liberals are strongly anti-government, just like the Founding Fathers. It is liberals who are raising the flag to Bush administration curtailment of our freedoms, of rampant American militarism from radical nationalists, and opposition to engaging in endless foreign wars. All I see conservatives doing is trying to defend everything the government does, even when it is their rights which are being taken away. In Revolutionary times, it was the conservatives who wanted to remain loyal to the King of England.

As for foreign pushover? Liberals respect world opinion. If we don't have UN security council approval to engage in a war, then we should respect that. That's not being a pushover, that's respecting world opinion. Conservatives need to realize that America is less than 5% of the world population, but they behave like they are the only people that matter.

As for redistribution. What do you mean by this? Equal wages for all? I don't know one Democrat who advocates that. The difference between a liberal and a conservative on this issue is that conservatives accept inequality in society. Liberals don't. Conservatives have no problem spending $500 billion on war, but when it comes to educating the people, they simply don't care. Or health care? Conservatives simply accept people will not have health care. It is liberals who are working to get EVERYONE access to health care. Taxation is essentially redistribution, so unless you want to totally abolish all forms of taxes, you must realize that every single government which imposes a tax on its people are essentially redistributing wealth. I just believe that redistribution should be to give all people a chance at prosperity.

As for Obama leftists? After the last 7 years of horrid leadership by the president and Republican Party controlled Congress, Obama promises a drastic change of policy. This is exactly what I and millions of people want. So why not be enthusiastic for him? I can tell the Republicans are 1000% jealous of Obama. They wish McCain could get sold-out rallied all over America and around the world. But they don't, and so they bitch and complain about Obama's "celebrity"..

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