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Originally posted by Capitalizt so shaolin, if nobody is allowed to borrow money, how exactly will people get loans for homes, cars, to start up a small business, etc?

How about saving up first then buying?

That's what capitalisim is, borowing like we do right now is a relatively recent innovation. It's even posible that it is not a sustainable system.

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Originally posted by atbell How about saving up first then buying?

which fantasy land are you living in?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN which fantasy land are you living in?

OMG, STOP WINNING. Get my comp sometime this week. YAY!

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Originally posted by atbell How about saving up first then buying? That's what capitalisim is, borowing like we do right now is a relatively recent innovation. It's even posible that it is not a sustainable system.

the only thing new about borrowing is the debt instruments devised by bankers and lawyers. have you ever heard of indentured servants?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_slavery

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Originally posted by Krypton OMG, STOP WINNING. Get my comp sometime this week. YAY!

i told you, i can't help it! smashed 3 players (all from the top 250) in the last 3 games. im underated. ill start losing once im around the top 200. my padawan learner was giving a top 50 player a touch up the other night!

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 the only thing new about borrowing is the debt instruments devised by bankers and lawyers. have you ever heard of indentured servants? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_slavery

Exactly, that's why I said "borowing like we do", not simply borowing.

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Originally posted by atbell Exactly, that's why I said "borowing like we do", not simply borowing.

i would argue that a system in which people use their own physical bodies as collateral for debt is a far worse system.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i would argue that a system in which people use their own physical bodies as collateral for debt is a far worse system.

That's a good point.

Lets unite and fight loan sharks!!

Down with thugs!

Back to the original thread topic then...

I think it's safe and fair to say that 1) Yes, there are plenty of profits that are perfectly "just." and 2) Yes, there are plenty of examples of where a profit might not be clearly justified. Can we move on now?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, let's say i don't have a problem with mercendising to children. but you do have a problem with it. who is the arbiter that decides between our two mutually-exclusive opinions?

I bet you're also one of those parents who doesnt mind his child running around without supervision, too. You won't make a good parent, sorry to admit this. Kids should not be beamed with propaganda because they are easily succeptable to manipulation and brainwashing which is the whole point of the ads - kids dont understand why/who/what/where when it comes to the ads. They take in everything. If the ad tells them to shoot their parents, and they dont know better, they'll do it. Go take parenting classes to learn how fragile children are. So if the ads aired telling your kids to steal parents money to buy those goods, you'd like it too? Because thats pretty much what the ads are doing ... and most of that stuff has little if any benefits to the children.

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what about dangerous levels of carcinogens in tobacco? or salt in potato chips? or trans fats in take away food? where is the line between acceptable and unacceptable danger and who draws that line? and why am i not allowed to engage in behaviour that's only bad for me?

Salt in potato chips??? You joking me? Salt is the least of concerns when it comes to dangerous chemicals in foods. Salt is present in fish, so what? Besides, sugar and salt are natural preservatives, get a brain! Salt has been around for eons and is present widely in nature. Pesticides, pharmaceuticals, antibiotics, aspartame, other chemicals & toxins - lets talk about these monsters. Did nature add those to foods, too?

Dont need to draw a line. Just ban the chemicals that are dangerous to health of people. After all, FDA is supposed to protect people, right? Is that why promoters of these dangerous foods and chemicals can sometimes have past and future jobs in FDA?

You're allowed to choose whatever the poisons to put in your body. Just dont put your fucking poison dispensing machine in public areas which have negative effect on people. Put a dispensing machine with things beneficial for EVERYONE, not your own sorry sick ass.

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again, who is making the call of what is and isnt a toxic environment? who is the arbiter between competing interests?

And then you label us as denialists? You DENY all these things that cause damage to people and the environment, deny that they are a problem. You refuse to deal with them. These things have not been dealt with, and are not being dealt with because of such attitudes. "Environmental pollution big friggin deal we'll just mop it up fine 'em and it done and over with". Bullshit. Ignorance and profits trump health and environmental issues, of course.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture