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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced My understanding is the carbon tax is applied at the wholesale level...so most likely there will be an increase in the cost of some products. Gasoline will not be taxed further at the pump as it is already taxed. If you want to read more about the Green Shift Plan then check out This

Just took a read, and I am even less convinced this is a good idea. IMO taxing the primary members of the supply chains will increase costs by more than they are promising to give back to me.

They are being very tricky with their math:
- they show you costs for 1st year, and 4th year figures (to minimize the shock).
- they only show you the 4th year figures for low income tax cuts (to maximize effect).
- they base their energy costs on June figures, before the market started to correct, to show you how much prices have gone up on their own, and show you how small their increases will be.
- then they calculate their 4th year tax revenue on today's prices.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I'm hoping for a Liberal win for exactly this reason. Green shift equals a $1200 reduction in my income tax. The average Canadian will pay an additional $250/yr in carbon tax and/or higher costs. That means $950 more in my pocket. Actually, it will probably be less in carbon costs for me since I don't pay for gas and I just retrofitted my home for maximum gas and electric efficiency. Interestingly... $1200 is also approximately what I save per year from the GST cuts... of course that was tempered by a $400 a year increase in my income tax (remember, they cancelled an income tax cut to fund the GST cut). I'll be interested to see what the conservatives have to say on taxes, as so far all they're saying is what their record is... which is all fine and good except that we're voting on the next government, not the last.

So you think youll save in taxes? Really? Well who will pay it then? Answer is everybody. That means that EVERYTHING you buy will cost more. Your heating bill, electricity bill etc will cost more. Truck diesel will cost more. High gas prices and high minimum wage are already inflationary enough as it is. Trust me. You dont think you will pay but you will one way or another. Also, how much will it cost to implement and run this new beurocracy? Does anybody remember the HDRC boondoggle? The 2 Billion dollar gun registry? Do we trust yet another liberal program? At least the GST cut was straight forward and did not involve creating more government!

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I calculated my return on the Green Shift and it equals $595.00 for the year. If you go on the liberal website you can calculate the amount you will save with their new green shift plan.

now there is a reliable unbiased source LOL

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Only last week did he essentially NATIONALISE the mortgage industry by having the federal government take over two major mortgage companies. Wait, isn't that a Marxist tactic?

Truthfully I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The takeover of Fannie and Freddie was necessary to prevent the complete collapse of the entire US financial system.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced My understanding is the carbon tax is applied at the wholesale level...so most likely there will be an increase in the cost of some products. Gasoline will not be taxed further at the pump as it is already taxed. If you want to read more about the Green Shift Plan then check out This

I remember when the dollar was worth more than the US how everyone was whining about how things here still cost more. Thats because we have to pay for added costs of taxes, regulation, and other burdens that are artificially placed on canadians. This green tax is one more big one.

If the liberals get in federally they will compound what the provincial liberals are already doing to ontario when they implement the $10.25 hour minimum wage. Soon it will cost $100 to take the family out for burgers!! (its already an unbelievable $40-50 as compared to $20 in the US !!!)

Thanks but no thanks Dion. Im having enough trouble as it is to get by. If you really had a green plan youd start putting solar and wind power as a supplement to the grid in every newly built home. Now THAT would be doing something. But no, this is just another liberal big government scheme that will accomplish nothing more than to add a few thousand more people to the pay roll.

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 dude Bush has been doing that to the United States since he took office and look at the state they're in right now. Only last week did he essentially NATIONALISE the mortgage industry by having the federal government take over two major mortgage companies. Wait, isn't that a Marxist tactic?

so which is it? A socialist (marxist tactic) or capitalist? Its actually a socialist tactic. Funny but id apply marxist to almost everything the left wing has done or wants to do to canada. Sounds like you arent a big fan? I hope u dont vote NDP or Liberal then.

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Originally posted by Skipper Truthfully I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The takeover of Fannie and Freddie was necessary to prevent the complete collapse of the entire US financial system.

Seriously.

Hmmm...nationalise mortgage debt or possible world wide economic collapse?

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Originally posted by Skipper Jay, I'm confused - what is it you want? More social programs? Lower taxes? Different fiscal policy? You talk a lot about why it's so obvious to vote conservative but I'm not sure you've really explained flat out why that is? Or maybe it's buried in your sensationalism.

Essentially my message is "do whatever the hell you want as long as youd dont ask me to pay for it".

Im a socially liberal fiscal conservative. I do take issue with a lot of harper's stances with social policy as far as certain rights. But hes wisely chosen to leave them alone and i believe he will as he has.

I dont believe in overweighted government social programs as they end up being inefficient and wasteful. I do like public/private partnerships and closely monitored private services when it comes to delivery of social services. A carefully balanced mix between public and private maintains public interest while allowing costs to be controlled through the desire to earn a profit. This desire is what lacks when something is 100% public as the people running it assume that the money pot is endless and there is no drive to conserve expense and maximize performance.

I might add that the lack of desire to be efficent is what ultimately led to the demise of the Soviet empire.

Also I dont think anyone should tell you how to run your life if others arent directly harmed by what you do. micro-managing your lifestyle seems to be a non-partisan canadian diseases that seems to get worse the further left you go.

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Originally posted by Skipper Truthfully I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The takeover of Fannie and Freddie was necessary to prevent the complete collapse of the entire US financial system.

yes, I know...but am I the only one that finds it a tad bit interesting that the "less government interference, free market for all" Bush administration has to resort to a "socialist" tactic to halt the crisis?

And the concern over moderate government regulation is...what again? I want to hear the right wing argument against government regulation again if anyone can be so kind.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

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Originally posted by Jayx1 so which is it? A socialist (marxist tactic) or capitalist? Its actually a socialist tactic. Funny but id apply marxist to almost everything the left wing has done or wants to do to canada. Sounds like you arent a big fan? I hope u dont vote NDP or Liberal then.

either you read or took what I said the wrong way or I fuddled my point. I am a little stressed out lately.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

You're all a bunch of socialists!

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- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker You're all a bunch of socialists!

fascist!

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"No offense, but you're stupid"