We also used cassettes, 8 track, vhs, cds and dvds and now blue ray, and a lot of music, doesn't even have a phsyical form anymore. Ive seen cd used by DJs since burning hardware has been around, and some people didn't look back. Now, any local venue Ive been to doesn't even have a medium, its just a laptop hooked up to a system.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley stuff

The same way it sounds better when you convert .wav into 192kbit mp3s.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley In any event, digital audio is better because it is THE SOURCE. How can something sound better or claim to be better than the pure, original, source itself?!?!?!? PLEASE explain this to me.

Digital isn't the source if it's an analog synth or guitar recorded to tape.

[/nitpick]

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley How in the world can you say something created digitally sounds better on vinyl? I see you using "CD" in your post very sneakily. Do not confuse or try to confuse others on a CD vs. digital audio. A CD is just a piece of plastic capable of playing back digital audio at a specific quality and doesn't come close to representing the superiority of digital audio. How in the world could you make the claim that vinyl is better? I realize this is opinionated, but I just can't fathom how you can claim something sounds better than its original and most pure form. In any event, digital audio is better because it is THE SOURCE. How can something sound better or claim to be better than the pure, original, source itself?!?!?!? PLEASE explain this to me.

Well let me explain to you why. Before a track is released on vinyl it is mastered with real mastering equipment. What a mastering engineer does is he takes the original source and makes it sound better than the original source did. He does that by running it through expensive equipment that alter the sonic characteristics of a sound in a pleasant way.
This is why they got masalec compressors manley limiters pultec equalizers and all sorts of expensive equipment that are way beyond the scope of even high end studios yet alone no budget net labels.

Have a look here to get an idea of what you will find at a good mastering studio...

http://vintageking.com/New-Masterin...ressor-Limiters

http://vintageking.com/New-Mastering-Equalizers

Once the music is run through this equipment by a professional mastering engineer in a proper mastering studio it will sound a lot better than what it already did. This is why labels pay these people money. So stop it with the ''original source sound better'' nonsense. This is not the case. Especially these days.
The difference is that when labels press vinyl this sort of treat is included as a bonus in the pressing price.
With digital audio unless the label owner or artist pays a proper mastering studio to master the music the music will not get run through this gear.
This is why the music tends to sound better on vinyl.

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Now you're just going on about how business is conducted. Completely irrelavent to the conversation at hand. It doesn't matter what the majority of people may or may not do. You make it sound as if digital music can't go through the exact same process for which you described the vinyl mastering process. There is nothing that can be done to a vinyl pressing that can't be done in a digital setting, however; there are plenty of things that can be done in a digital setting that would be catastrophic to vinyl. Again, you're trying to argue against the pure form source, and you sound like a clown.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Now you're just going on about how business is conducted. Completely irrelavent to the conversation at hand. It doesn't matter what the majority of people may or may not do.

It is 100% relevant to the conversation. All things equal the music will sound good on cd too. It is just that net labels (especialy the no budget ones) don't master the tracks professionally to make them sound as good as possible before they release them. The better ones do that.

With vinyl real mastering is included in the price so most of the time you are listening to a record that is mastered to sound good.

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Funny thing is, 100% of the time, its the net labels and low key artists/labels, that sound better. I have had songs on the cosmic flower VA. The songs on that free label, sound better than anything released by universal studios in the last 15 years. And I don't know any company that has a higher budget.

Also a key "feature" you left out is that the companies you describe are the same that demand a maximum rms. The ones that want the music compressed to such a shitty state that its a flat line. They have effectivly removed dynamics from music. All that matters is loudness. So talking about what the the "big companies" use is rather fucking stupid. Most people I think would agree its the big label companies who are enforcing the shitty mix quality that the world is stuck with. So who the fuck cares what they use?

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quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Funny thing is, 100% of the time, its the net labels and low key artists/labels, that sound better. I have had songs on the cosmic flower VA. The songs on that free label, sound better than anything released by universal studios in the last 15 years. And I don't know any company that has a higher budget.

Never heard of them but if you take the universal catalog you will see that they usually license records that are already doing really well sales wise.
That's what the majors care for. Putting in one and getting out two.
This commercializes the sound an I will agree with you you might find a lot more interesting records on independent labels. Bedrock records for example is a label that releases really good electronic music that is probably not accessible enough for universal to pick up. Yet it is mastered properly at the exchange and sounds absolutely superb.
With that said there has been some really good music released through universal too.

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Also a key "feature" you left out is that the companies you describe are the same that demand a maximum rms. The ones that want the music compressed to such a shitty state that its a flat line. They have effectivly removed dynamics from music. All that matters is loudness. So coming to this forum and talking about the the "big compoanies" use is rather fucking stupid. Most people I think would agree its the big label companies who are enforcing the shitty mix quality that the world is stuck with. So who the fuck cares what they use?

Well sixofour anybody pressing vinyl or paying for mastering will get proper mastering. Not just the ''corporate fatcats'' at universal music. And the loudness war has been discussed before. But you if you talk to a mastering engineer about the loudness war and RMS values and then tell him you listen to trance music you are really gonna look silly...

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Well, heh, I don't really listen to trance anymore. I do listen to alot of electronic music though of course. As for the loudness war stuff, the mastering engineers do it, so they are the ones guilty for putting it out. No one is forcing them to shittify music. Often times I enjoy music not even mastered, more than stuff that has been touched by an engineer. Though that might have to do with the fact that maby 5% of the music I listen to was made after 1999 and is from a label. I don't normally listen to mainstreme stuff anymore.

At the same time, in my opinion, all of this is superfolus. People act as if being mp3 vs vinyl or being mastered is what makes or breaks a track, sorry, but if a track is good, the minor details don't mean much, and if the track is bad, putting glitter won't change it, tiesto.

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quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Well, heh, I don't really listen to trance anymore. I do listen to alot of electronic music though of course. As for the loudness war stuff, the mastering engineers do it, so they are the ones guilty for putting it out. No one is forcing them to shittify music.

Electronic music has always been compressed and pumped. The mastering engineers didn't do that. The artists wanted it to sound that way.
The problem is that when using plug-ins trying to archive that sound it will sound a lot worse than if you leave some headroom and let the mastering engineer pump it in the analog domain.

Acoustic music has been suffering from this loudness the last decade because labels figured out that when a record comes on the radio and it is louder than the others people tend to buy it more.
So they have been living louder ever since.

Perhaps the prime example of how loud sound can get is a TV commercial.
Notice when the program stops and ads come on how annoying that sudden loudness is. This is about as loud as sound gets. It is meant to Interrupt your thoughts and act as ''Drop what ever the fuck you are doing.'' ''You are going to listen to me whether you like it or not'' ''LOUD voice talking to you'' ''Time to buy the new Toyota Tundra''

quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 Often times I enjoy music not even mastered, more than stuff that has been touched by an engineer. Though that might have to do with the fact that maby 5% of the music I listen to was made after 1999 and is from a label. I don't normally listen to mainstreme stuff anymore. At the same time, in my opinion, all of this is superfolus. People act as if being mp3 vs vinyl or being mastered is what makes or breaks a track, sorry, but if a track is good, the minor details don't mean much, and if the track is bad, putting glitter won't change it, tiesto.

Good music is good music but mastering is important as well.

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The "compressed and pumped" is part of the problem. Having your whole song duck behind a kick is retarded.

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quote:

Originally posted by sixofour.604 The "compressed and pumped" is part of the problem. Having your whole song duck behind a kick is retarded.

The sidechain effect is played out imo. Some people like that.
I don't like it when it is used extremely.
But regardless of sidechaining the electronic music genre has always been the loudest of them all sixofour.
With that said if you listen to the fat of the land record for example there are a lot more dynamics than in your average electronic music album of 2009.

More about the loudness war:

This guy here got so fed up with the loudness war and how music sounds these days that he started a website about it:

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/

Sign up.
Just whatever you do don't tell him you came from the production forum of tranceaddict. Lol.

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I'll tell him I came from DogsOnAcid

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