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Originally posted by Krypton I love how conservatives take it upon themselves to tell others how to live their lives. How about fucking off ay?

So I guess by imposing death on a fetus youre not imposing your will on his or her's life.

Great logic.

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Originally posted by tryan1977 So I guess by imposing death on a fetus youre not imposing your will on his or her's life. Great logic.

The fetus is a part of the mother's body, so legally, she can choose to do with her body what she wants. You may disagree with that morally, as do I, but I don't go around imposing my version of morality on the rest of society, hence why I said, "fuck off ay?"

This may be a little off-track, but isn't it the same pro-life conservatives who advocate the death penalty for criminals? The hypocrisy of the supposed moral high grounders is baffling...

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i can think of an even scarier nightmare...


imagine if all of those unwanted babies were had and then bounced around in foster care where they get abused or raised by careless idiot parents resulting in yet another sociopath among us.

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My soliloquy may be hard for some to swallow, but so is cod liver oil.

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Originally posted by notelfreak man i can't believe i tried to come off as responsible in that other thread, i am so full of shit just don't tell anyone

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Originally posted by Krypton This may be a little off-track, but isn't it the same pro-life conservatives who advocate the death penalty for criminals? The hypocrisy of the supposed moral high grounders is baffling...

So lets destroy innocent life yet let the guilty murders and rapists live.

Wouldnt you rather live in a society that takes the life of the guilty but harbors the life of the innocent?

Ideally there would be neither. But you seem to think that all abortions happen in the last trimester, which is certainly not what anybody had suggested. I think everyone is in agreement that abortion happens too often, and there should be steps taken to decrease the frequency of abortion. However, many of your compatriots seem to think that abstinence-only education is more effective than condom use in that regard, which is just foolish.

Abortion is a right that is sometimes abused. Just like gun ownership. Or freedom of speech. It doesn't mean it should be taken away from those for whom the right serves. Biological science shows that in the first trimester there is no indication that an embryo is anything more than potential life. There is no brain function, no heartbeat, no nerve functioning, etc.

Sarah Palin believes rape victims should not be allowed an abortion in the first trimester, but should be charged for their own rape kits. That's not mainstream, but I'd be amused to see you attempt to justify it as such.

I think we have a situation not at all different than gun control. Liberals agree that abortion in the third trimester and partial-birth abortions are almost universally wrong. Just as conservatives agree that automatic assault rifles have no business being legal. But you have an ideological base in both cases unwilling to yield any ground for fear of justifying the beliefs of the other.

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Originally posted by tryan1977 So lets destroy innocent life yet let the guilty murders and rapists live. Wouldnt you rather live in a society that takes the life of the guilty but harbors the life of the innocent?

What does killing a criminal achieve? It's a proven fact the death penalty does not deter violent crime. Why do you apply a double standard on human life?

A fetus is a part of a woman's body, and so the woman is at liberty to do with her body what she pleases, as long as nobody else's rights are violated. I find abortion reprehensible but the moral issue of it is up to the woman in question, since the fetus is part of her body. She'll have to live with her decision for the rest of her life.

The difference between me and you is I don't impose my version of morality on the rest of society...

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Kind of still sounds like he's making shit up... again.

WTF? fuck you dude. why the hell would I make this up? You want me to fax you a copy of the damn purchase order and photo documentation from when I was there or something?

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Don't worry - he agrees with you. Which is why he was using a manufactured memory to make a cheap political point.

holy SHIT. go fuck yourself bro. did I post in the political forum? no. I even said I support a woman's right to choose... and I still do. I was just telling my story man. Not everything is about politics.

Edit: If you notice, nowhere in my post was I judgemental about those people I saw in there. I was simply talking about how it affected ME. But look who's being judgemental... calling me a liar because you want to believe I'm making the issue about something else. Funny that you are the one who is actually making this thread about politics. This is exactly why I have stayed of out the politics forum lately... it's not possible to have an open minded, rational discussion with people like you

Last edited by The17sss on Oct-12-2008 at 22:30

It is not my intention to get involved in an abortion debate (I've had my fair share of those over the years), but I feel a couple of points are in order:

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Originally posted by Krypton You may disagree with that morally, as do I, but I don't go around imposing my version of morality on the rest of society, hence why I said, "fuck off ay?"

I don't see how any piece of legislation is independent of some moral framework.

To determine things to be legal or illegal reflects some sort of moral position. For example, it is illegal to exceed the posted speed limit in a residential area because it is wrong endanger the lives of pedestrians and property.

You can spin this in a variety of ways, but there's always a recourse back to the advancement of a moral position, and it is a moral position which has been enshrined into law.

When you advocate for the legalization of abortion, you're advocating for the legislation of morality (in this case, morality that has already been legislated).

So it's not a matter of whether or not we should legislate morality, but it's rather a question of whose or which morality we ought to legislate.

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Originally posted by Krypton This may be a little off-track, but isn't it the same pro-life conservatives who advocate the death penalty for criminals? The hypocrisy of the supposed moral high grounders is baffling...

Depending upon the underlying reasoning, there isn't necessarily a contradiction in these two positions.

If, on the one hand, one opposes abortion by virtue of the premise that it is immoral to take any human life for any reason, then yes, there's an irreconcilable conflict here.

On the other hand, if one opposes abortion, but accepts capital punishment on the premise that the criminal convicted of a capital crime thereby looses the right to protection an otherwise innocent person would have, then there's no inconsistency between them.

Last edited by Paradox Lost on Oct-12-2008 at 22:51

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Originally posted by The17sss holy SHIT. go fuck yourself bro. did I post in the political forum? no. I even said I support a woman's right to choose... and I still do. I was just telling my story man. Not everything is about politics. Edit: If you notice, nowhere in my post was I judgemental about those people I saw in there. I was simply talking about how it affected ME. But look who's being judgemental... calling me a liar because you want to believe I'm making the issue about something else. Funny that you are the one who is actually making this thread about politics. This is exactly why I have stayed of out the politics forum lately... it's not possible to have an open minded, rational discussion with people like you

When the sources you bring to the table in the politics forum are Rush Limbaugh and FoxNews... you reap what you sow.

But that's really neither here nor there.

I'm sorry your thread turned out political - but did you expect anything else by bringing abortion to a public forum?

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Originally posted by Audious That's such a common scenario. Thanks for adding that.

no it's not, idiot.