quote:

Originally posted by diesel_tron3000 if we had a flat tax system instead of a progressive system, we would collect more tax revenues than we would ever need and then have real socialized health care in our great open economy

What kind of flat tax? Sales tax? If sales tax, then by it's very nature, it would be progressive, since wealthy people spend more money, and thus, pay higher taxes.

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Originally posted by Krypton What kind of flat tax? Sales tax? If sales tax, then by it's very nature, it would be progressive, since wealthy people spend more money, and thus, pay higher taxes.

OMG ding ding! we have a winner! too bad big business will never let it happen

i'm suggesting more so on the federal level, on everything from income tax to capital gains to passive income to the death or estate tax. have you ever seen the US tax code book? what a fuckkkin WASTE of paper, not to mention the impotant shite, like all the exceptions to different holdings and exotic rules and loopholes. the real idea of a flat federal tax is to clean up the tax code so that you can't skip out on paying your taxes just because you have multiple loans with tax deductible interest or some other type whacked out finances.

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Originally posted by Krypton What kind of flat tax? Sales tax? If sales tax, then by it's very nature, it would be progressive, since wealthy people spend more money, and thus, pay higher taxes.

that is not true. sales taxes tend to be regressive when evaluated over a period less than a person's entire life (a sales tax is not regressive over a person's life if you assume that the person will spend his entire lifetime income before death). That is because as income rises so does savings. Thus, a person who makes 2M a year will not spend 2M a year, but someone who makes 50K a year is likely to spend all 50K in that year.

Here's the simple math. Assume the tax rate is 10%.

Someone who makes 2M a year may make 500K in purchases for a total tax bill of 50K. Even though the person paid more dollars in taxes, the effective rate of tax is only 2.5%

The person who makes 50K a year will spend 45.5K a year with 4.5K in sales taxes on those purchases. Although paying less in dollar terms, this person would pay an effective tax rate of 9%.

progressivity refers to the increasing tax burden as income rises. Just because a greater amount of taxes are paid doesn't mean that the tax is progressive.

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Originally posted by diesel_tron3000 you can't skip out on paying your taxes just because you have multiple loans with tax deductible interest

tax concessions like that invite investment.

flat taxes are shit. why should poor people pay the same % rate as rich people?

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because tax revenues will be higherrrrr

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Originally posted by diesel_tron3000 because tax revenues will be higherrrrr

They'll also be higher if the tax rate is 100% across the board. It doesn't make sense if it's not an affordable system.

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how the right to live is not a "right" in the United States, I think is criminal. But you can go back and blame fucking Nixon for allowing the insurance companies to take everything over when Canada was actually moving toward national healthcare and Trudeau and Tommy Douglas were debating the issue in 1968.

Obama's plan didn't go far enough for my tastes, but maybe he'll be persuaded to expand it a bit if/when possible in his first term.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

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Originally posted by diesel_tron3000 if we had a flat tax system instead of a progressive system, we would collect more tax revenues than we would ever need and then have real socialized health care in our great open economy

And the winner of the most factually incorrect post of 2008 goes to...!

(The clue is in the type of people that support a flat tax system...)

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Originally posted by George Smiley And the winner of the most factually incorrect post of 2008 goes to...! (The clue is in the type of people that support a flat tax system...)

all the papers i read about fair tax / flat tax proposals in the US made unsupported conclusory statements that the flat tax will increase tax revenue. From a purely logical standpoint, if you substantially lower tax rates on the income of the top 10%, the same people who make over 50% of the income in this country (USA), how is a modest increase in tax rates on the bottom 50% of income going to make up that difference. Under a flat tax system if 50% of the total income (which is earned by the top 10%) is taxed at a rate 15% lower than the current rate (35-20), the rest of the income (50% - which is earned by the bottom) would need to be taxed higher by 15%. That's not possible under a flat tax system. When i talk about tax rates i mean effective tax rates, not the statutory rates.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 all the papers i read about fair tax / flat tax proposals in the US made unsupported conclusory statements that the flat tax will increase tax revenue. From a purely logical standpoint, if you substantially lower tax rates on the income of the top 10%, the same people who make over 50% of the income in this country (USA), how is a modest increase in tax rates on the bottom 50% of income going to make up that difference. Under a flat tax system if 50% of the total income (which is earned by the top 10%) is taxed at a rate 15% lower than the current rate (35-20), the rest of the income (50% - which is earned by the bottom) would need to be taxed higher by 15%. That's not possible under a flat tax system. When i talk about tax rates i mean effective tax rates, not the statutory rates.

The concept of a flat tax system in no way shape or form offers any indicator as to whether tax revenues for a government will decrease or increase. That, is purely down to the rate of the flat tax set by the government.