quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Best response so far. Don't know why this has to be a big argument. Thanks for keeping it simple. Edit: Oh, is that Shed track anything like the one in my sig? The Well Done edit is extremely hypnotic.

Thats probably because you have similar tastes. A lot of this techno is actually "dumb" to me (and this doesn't mean that i don't like it, i like the deep and detroit-influenced stuff you mentioned). Its nice as a hypnotic and deep kind of dance music but i can't see how that makes it intelligent. The musical structure of many modern EDM is extremely simple to theorize anything as intelligent. Maybe the only "intelligence" comes from the sounds and samples used, but i can't see, or rather, hear it.




The kind of "intelligence" people mean probably derives from consensus which states that anything which is not mainstream and sounds a bit "unconventional" is "intelligent". But "unconventional" doesn't necessarily mean "intelligent". At least in terms of all possible factors which could be related to "intelligence", the skills needed, the degree of expertise, the prototypicallity of the idea,the clever unconventional mix of ideas, the musical complexity, the aesthetic quality of melodies (if they exist) etc. Sure some forms of techno can score high in prototypicallity, but are unconventional only in comparison to other forms of EDM. It is still techno and it is still prone to the same inherent constraints of all EDM, at least if it is viewed from an out-of-EDM perspective. Maybe someone can use it only in a "within-EDM context" but paradoxically, it sounds "stupid" to use it as a term to describe music.

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Yes. There is no right or wrong answer that I'm trying to decipher out of this thread. I'm just trying to pick at people's brain--not to judge, just to discover.

Fair enough then

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Originally posted by woscar Aphex Twin

http://www.discogs.com/release/3666

∆Mi−1=−α ∑ Di[η] ∑F ji[η−1]+Fexti[η−1]
η=1 j∈C{i}

Talking bout intelligence

Tribal Tech House that always changes.. awesome stuff

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BA-DUM-TSS

quote:

ALFI - BOHICA - DJ MIX (Stream+Dropbox)

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes Best response so far. Don't know why this has to be a big argument. Thanks for keeping it simple. Edit: Oh, is that Shed track anything like the one in my sig? The Well Done edit is extremely hypnotic.

cheers!

the shed track i mentioned doesn't sound too much like well done, but they both have that raw berlin-engineered signature sound of his.


@ petran: i, along with a few others have laid our cards on the table. so i'd be interested to see your list of intelligent tracks - if you believe in the concept!

quote:

Originally posted by ThaMaestro http://www.discogs.com/release/3666 ∆Mi−1=−α ∑ Di[η] ∑F ji[η−1]+Fexti[η−1] η=1 j∈C{i} Talking bout intelligence

i could never figure out what that means!

quote:

Originally posted by sgb476 @ petran: i, along with a few others have laid our cards on the table. so i'd be interested to see your list of intelligent tracks - if you believe in the concept!

IDM lol.(and the broader "elctronica" genre-and some downtempo) Stuff like Boards of Canada,Bola, Autechre, Aphex Twin, Arovane, Global Communications, Apparat,Telefon Tel-Aviv, Proem, m-Ziq etc.

Some artists that i listen to lately and do some innovative and sweet stuff are Boy is Fiction, Helios, Arms and Sleepers... check Boy is Fiction's myspace page


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cf...iendID=96042225


He is amazing imo. He blends various stuff like clicks and glitches with piano and orchestral passages, epic emotional post-rockish build-ups and at times industrial sounds.







Ofcourse you could argue that this stuff is not EDM and you would probably be right. To tell you the truth i can't see any "intelligence" in any pure EDM genre such as house, techno or trance. Some Techno and Progressive could be the best candidates but still...

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Originally posted by PETRAN He is amazing imo. He blends various stuff like clicks and glitches with piano and orchestral passages, epic emotional post-rockish build-ups and at times industrial sounds. Ofcourse you could argue that this stuff is not EDM and you would probably be right. To tell you the truth i can't see any "intelligence" in any pure EDM genre such as house, techno or trance. Some Techno and Progressive could be the best candidates but still...

Hmmm, would your opinion about it change if that would have a beat and awesome bassline?
Maybe you wouldn't even have listened?

IMO many tracks maybe would sound intelligent when some things are removed.

I recognize some things in "if you hear me fall" from older trance tracks.

I'm going to bed now, and must says that last one is a really nice relaxing track to end the day with.
I love piano's by the way

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Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

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Originally posted by sgb476 i could never figure out what that means!

my background in mechanical engineering should make me capable of telling you ... but i fail . no idea what it means, and i dont feel like doing the math

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Thats probably because you have similar tastes. A lot of this techno is actually "dumb" to me (and this doesn't mean that i don't like it, i like the deep and detroit-influenced stuff you mentioned). Its nice as a hypnotic and deep kind of dance music but i can't see how that makes it intelligent. The musical structure of many modern EDM is extremely simple to theorize anything as intelligent. Maybe the only "intelligence" comes from the sounds and samples used, but i can't see, or rather, hear it.

I haven't heard any of those tracks he mentioned. It was the best response because he named some tracks he thought were intelligent, shared a bit why he thought so, and carried on. That's all I was asking for. Again, I just wanted a general consensus of what people view as "intelligent" so we can see if any patterns emerge.

And you have provided a reason for why you think intelligent music does not exist. Thank you. Although I disagree, you are only referring to 'techno.' I enjoy techno, but that is not my genre of choice. So it would be less easy for me to find particular 'intelligent' techno, naturally.

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Class Tunes:

Hardfloor - Don't Trust Chief Wiggum
The Black Dog - Train by the Autobahn (Part 2)
Luke Solomon - Space Invaders (Andromat 3000 Remix)
Shed - Well Done (033472 Edit)
Shlomi Aber feat. Lemon - Moods

Last edited by digitalEyes on Dec-15-2008 at 23:03

Another tune I would classify as intelligent would be Moshic's "The Myth of Osiris (part one)." I don't know if there is any other track that does a better job at taking you into a fantastical, mythical world for 9 minutes and making you believe it actually exists in some far-reaching corner of the universe.

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Class Tunes:

Hardfloor - Don't Trust Chief Wiggum
The Black Dog - Train by the Autobahn (Part 2)
Luke Solomon - Space Invaders (Andromat 3000 Remix)
Shed - Well Done (033472 Edit)
Shlomi Aber feat. Lemon - Moods

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K I use 'intelligent' in the context of music that isn't too shallow, has artistic and cultural value beyond mainstream commercial appeal. It's not really meant to be elitist, just a word to describe thought-driven music as opposed to music designed to be as catchy and easily digestible as possible.

Bang.

I feel very at home using the tag "intelligent" for this reason. It doesn't imply anything about the listener, only the creator. Just like you could say a scientific theory is "genius", you're implying that the idea or concept is clever and so is the person who created it; you're not saying anything about the person reviewing it.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think it's more that describing music as "intelligent" has inherently elitist connotations, as it implies that you're intelligent for listening to it and also that other music out there must be unintelligent by comparison. Since music has no intellect, you're either being metaphorical or (more likely) deferring meaning by calling it intelligent. "Complex" can describe the music directly without deferring the meaning.

I mostly agree with that, but I think music can be complex and well-layered without being intelligent.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Most of the time 'intelligent' music is meant to describe music that is strictly for the head (i.e. math rock) rather than for physical (rhythmic) or emotional (melodic) reactions we typically expect out of music.

On the contrary, the music that moves me the most is intelligent music. I marvel at the genius involved with the track.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Experimental music might also be considered 'intelligent' if there truly is something intuitive going on, but oftentimes producers of that stuff will use the 'intelligent' adjective as a shield against the fact what they're making is just a bunch of stupid noise.

Correct.

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Originally posted by Meat187 There's no such thing as intelligent music. Saying Aphex Twin is more intelligent than Happy Hardcore is like saying apples are more intelligent than oranges. Complete nonsense in every thinkable way.

No, Aphex Twin is far more intelligent than Happy Hardcore. Most happy Hardcore is the equivalent of a children's book or a National Lampoon movie, while Aphex Twin is more like Donnie Darko or Atlas Shrugged. What counts is the effort.

quote:

Originally posted by digitalEyes So it appears the general consensus is that there is no such thing as intelligent music. But I ask you this: In the same way you weed through the "dull" tracks on digital music sites to find the tunes that are "good" to you, can you weed through your "good" tunes and pick out the ones that are the most "intelligent?"

Most definitely, and I will do so later to provide a better response to this thread. Right now, I've got a date with a 500g porterhouse.

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