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Originally posted by otec Lebezniatnikov LOL So tell me smart guy, why monkey Bush and Rumsfeild were not prosecuted in a such called 'unsanctioned humiliations that, when uncovered, resulted in court martials!' ?

do you see either bush or rumsfeld in the picture? the very fact that it was not sanctioned is the reason they wouldn't be prosecuted. executive immunity is another major reason that wouldn't happen.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 do you see either bush or rumsfeld in the picture? the very fact that it was not sanctioned is the reason they wouldn't be prosecuted. executive immunity is another major reason that wouldn't happen.

so now you wanna tell me, that we should have prosecuted Nazi soldiers who did the actual killins, but because Hitler was out of the picture he is mr. nice guy, correct?

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Originally posted by otec so now you wanna tell me, that we should have prosecuted Nazi soldiers who did the actual killins, but because Hitler was out of the picture he is mr. nice guy, correct?

Thats clearly not what he said.

On the issue of Abu Ghraib there were things that happened on a blurred line of what was considered acceptable to the military brass in the US.

Obviously piling men on top of each other nude was not directly ordered but tactics that allowed something like this to eventually happen were in place.

Whether or not this constitutes a crime by people like Rumsfeld or not will be hotly debated by people with much more knowledge about military and international law than you and I for a very, very long time.

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Originally posted by otec Lebezniatnikov LOL So tell me smart guy, why monkey Bush and Rumsfeld were not prosecuted in a such called 'unsanctioned humiliations that, when uncovered, resulted in court martials!' ?

Because they were unsanctioned - where's this invisible smoking gun that Rumsfeld ordered prison guards to humiliate captives? When you find that, we can talk about prosecutions. American soldiers breaching humanitarian law independent of any orders is a different matter entirely than Nazi troops acting on the direct orders of the Fuhrer.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 do you see either bush or rumsfeld in the picture? the very fact that it was not sanctioned is the reason they wouldn't be prosecuted. executive immunity is another major reason that wouldn't happen.

Actually, "enhanced interrogation techniques", were sanctioned and approved from the very top.

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Originally posted by otec so now you wanna tell me, that we should have prosecuted Nazi soldiers who did the actual killins, but because Hitler was out of the picture he is mr. nice guy, correct?

in order for rumsfeld or bush to have any culpability for actions of soldiers there needs to be some sort of link between the actions of bush or rumsfeld and the actions of soldiers. That is, an order to torture or humiliate would need to come from somewhere near the top of the executive branch, or the top of the executive branch had knowledge of those actions and willfully disregarded those actions. I'm not sure the willfull disregard argument goes too far considering there was a subsequent court martial of those soldiers. Nevertheless, both likely have executive immunity that protects then from liability for actions undertaken in performing their executive duties.

with respect to your nazi comment, the nazi soldiers were carrying out orders of higher ranked government officials. this case is clearly distinguishable because it doesn't appear there were orders to force iraqi men to take off their clothes and pose in humiliating positions. it appears these were the actions of a few soldiers and not a policy of the military.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 with respect to your nazi comment, the nazi soldiers were carrying out orders of higher ranked government officials. this case is clearly distinguishable because it doesn't appear there were orders to force iraqi men to take off their clothes and pose in humiliating positions. it appears these were the actions of a few soldiers and not a policy of the military.

oh man, the US propaganda machine works fulltime 24/7.

There was an order from high ranked government officials to undertake tortures. That's exactly what your brave US soldiers did on that picture.

turn off FOX/CNN/BBC just for a while.

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Originally posted by otec oh man, the US propaganda machine works fulltime 24/7. There was an order from high ranked government officials to undertake tortures. That's exactly what your brave US soldiers did on that picture. turn off FOX/CNN/BBC just for a while.

Where do you get your news? The channels/websites that picked this story up after FOX/CNN/BBC did?

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Originally posted by otec But though Mi-28 is cool, it doesn't even get close to this baby. Ka-52

You're kidding right?
It looks ugly, and stupid.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Where do you get your news? The channels/websites that picked this story up after FOX/CNN/BBC did?

AP, Reuters is for facts.

For the rest, I try to read different sources on different languages, english (CNN/BBC), russian (rbc/gazeta/vedomosti), aljazeera and so on.

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Originally posted by IlanG You're kidding right? It looks ugly, and stupid.

No, I'm not kidding.

It doesn't look ugly and/or stupid.