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Originally posted by Q5echo the production date circa 2003 makes this one completely irrelevant not only in terms of what was accomplished in the following 5 years of the previous US administration but also where to go now in terms of the present US administration.

i disagree. i think its a valid history of korean-US relations, and we have our own knowledge to understand what came next. and do tell- what exactly was achieved by the bush administration in the next 5 years? you know, other than korea testing their nukes for all to see?

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Originally posted by Q5echo what is the signifigance of this one in terms of the points youre trying to make in this thread?

it makes a comparison of the hawkish failure in north korea re nuclear weapons with the current (at the time) hawkish dealings with iran over the same damned problem. we know that the administration's bluster failed to prevent north korea from going nuclear, so it (or at least i) question similar tactics being used re iran.

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Originally posted by Q5echo >LINK< from 2006

yeah, that is a bit troubling. as noted in the article though, not a smoking gun and could have been contaminated in pakistan. still though, i dont like the secrecy with which the program is conducted.

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Originally posted by Q5echo ideologically and lifestyle wise do you consider yourself a liberal or "progressive"?

progressive

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and do tell- what exactly was achieved by the bush administration in the next 5 years? you know, other than korea testing their nukes for all to see?

first off this notion that Bush was "hawkish" towards the Norks is another one of those media driven falsehoods. we never threatened military action in response to what North Korea did with their programs. we are still under an armistice with the Norks.

if you are referring to missle defence systems around the Sea of Japan and augmenting existing sytems on the peninsula those are, again, purely defensive in nature and were requested at the behest of those countries.

second, they already had enough weapons grade PLUTONIUM (not uranium) to make multiple devices long before Bush ever took office. you can blame the previous administration for that, if your only interest is to blame the US for what they do.



at any rate, we managed to get the Chinese involved in 6 party talks.

through intense 6 party negotiations (as opposed what Clinton attempted) we took them off the state sponsor of terror list, feed and fuel their peasants, guarantee future aid, ultimately resulting in the shutting down of their main facility in Yongbyon.

the problem here with the Norks is that you and other people who don't really take these things seriously but manage to fault everything that the US does beyond all other rational explaination seem to think we're dealing with a rational and trustworthy government in Pyongyang. it's absurd and it doesn't take much historical research on the subject past Jan 22, 2000 to come to such a conclusion.

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it makes a comparison of the hawkish failure in north korea re nuclear weapons with the current (at the time) hawkish dealings with iran over the same damned problem. we know that the administration's bluster failed to prevent north korea from going nuclear, so it (or at least i) question similar tactics being used re iran.

i hope i explained enough to you about the Norks and their nuclear ambitions predating the Bush administration. well, other than the fact Iran wants to destroy Israel, roughly the same timeline and pre-dating Bush applies as well.

another thing Iran has in common with the Norks it their completely duplicitous, ideologically bankrupt and exclusively inclusive government. other than that any and all attempts at non-proliferation need completly different approaches. primarily one that doesn't force the US to sit down with Ahmedinejad alone at the table.

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Originally posted by Kinezi progressive

so you have more in common with them [Israel] than you do radical facist Islam?

Last edited by Q5echo on Jan-29-2009 at 04:47

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, that is a bit troubling. as noted in the article though, not a smoking gun and could have been contaminated in pakistan. still though, i dont like the secrecy with which the program is conducted.

the devices they found in Lavizan, which was a defence facility btw that is a central part in their military industrial complex >LINK<, completely suprised the IAEA because they were told and assumed there was no nuke reseach going on there.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Didnt you ******s just almost wiped Gaza off the map and got away with it?

No.

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Originally posted by Q5echo no, not at all. what i'm saying is that there are rules/laws and standards of character to be considered before letting someone posses firearms. nothing too different going on here. as far as Iran is concerned they have repeatedly and purposefully failed to meet such criteria.

According to that standard, no country should have nuclear weapons, including the United States.

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Originally posted by Q5echo so you have more in common with them [Israel] than you do radical facist Islam?

I have more in common with Iran, I think they should nuke Israel to save Gaza and Palestine and this world.

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Originally posted by Kinezi I have more in common with Iran, I think they should nuke Israel to save Gaza and Palestine and this world.

Complete nonsense. Iran would itself be wiped off the map. Are you crazy?

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Originally posted by Krypton According to that standard,...

wait wait wait hold the fuck on, THAT IS THE STANDARD