Aw man. That's really shitty news.
-Lisa

Thank god.

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"You don't know if it's fear or desire, danger the drug that takes you higher..."

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Originally posted by dEsidEL sure but i think it also helps the scene grow. it's the very reason why places like Europe have large festivals and free open air events in public venues. i think you'll find good and bad music in all genres whether they're underground or mainstream..

growing isn't always better

We will never have large festivals here....not because of the politics involved and not because of the red tape involved but because western society is different then europe.

All I want to hear is good music and especially in north america good music is ruined when it becomes the popular choice. Early 90s hip hop was great and now anyone who can put together a few rhymes has a hit single. North American youth, in general, goes with the flow....they will like what everyone else likes and it doesn't matter how bad it is.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by me@t k@tie I disagree. People in Europe aren't any more real about the music than they are here. The only difference is that the actual music tastes differ. Just look at the fucking Brits - it's a mecca of so many different EDM genres, and don't tell me they're any less retarded than the people here. They still love getting drunk, and there's still a huge percentage of fakers, people who don't know shit, just know that this is where they can have a good time. Same thing with the ravers that were around when it was all "underground" - they all loved getting fucked up too, and a large percentage of them didn't know much more than that you take ecstasy, and then everything will be fun. Even if there wasn't any political red tape, you wouldn't see a massive 20,000-person event happening here - there just isn't the audience for it. WEMF struggled to bring 8,000 people a year, and that's pretty much the biggest thing we had going here. Maybe in the future it would be possible, but in order for that to happen, the music needs to hit more ears. Politics or not, if only a tiny percentage of the population know that these music genres even exist, then only those people will be the ones wanting to go these events. I'm too lazy to keep arguing this, cause it's been beaten to death, but trying to keep music underground isn't saving it. Trying to reach people who don't know about it is.

You have many valid points as do I. Though my experience has been bit different than yours. I feel that until certain laws and politics change..it's better to keep it underground.

IMO Z103 was not the best way to put our music out. This is one mistakes that cannot be repaired.
All we can do is have big hopes that one day.....we'll be able to do more in this city ...like have big events done for free...if only it could be feasible

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Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

Last edited by b4k-oz on Feb-21-2009 at 18:30

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Originally posted by b4k-oz The reason why we don't have big open air events is because laws were passed against raves and that included open air events like the ones in Europe. Too much red tape to hold such an event here. Not enough money going to the big corps for profits.

Those laws that were passed were bylaws enacted by the city to establish protocols for events held on city property. The same rules apply to EDM oriented events as they would with anything else, raves or otherwise. One could argue that they've added additional cost and overhead for the promoter, but considering that there were barely any standards to begin with prior, it's a start. Consider that perhaps with a greater exposure of the music to the mainstream audience, large companies and corporations might actually take an interest into providing sponsorship to hold events again much like it's done overseas.

Many genres of popular music today existed as being underground at some point or another. Us taking the whole "we are holier than thou art" attitude won't help a scene or music grow.

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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

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Originally posted by me@t k@tie I'm too lazy to keep arguing this, cause it's been beaten to death, but trying to keep music underground isn't saving it. Trying to reach people who don't know about it is.

The music doesn't have to be underground to be good and the music doesn't need to be saved.....there will always be people who will love the music and dance clubs will continue to play it. Marketing it to the masses doesn't mean it saves the music...heck in the last five years the quality of especially trance and house music has gone down hill significantly in my opinion. You can already see techno starting to go down hill as well. Its incredible how many tracks some producers come out with in a single year...all in hopes of finding a hit. With music so easily available through the internet anyone with some computer knowledge can produce a track and put it on a website for the masses to download and play.

Personally, I don't think mass marketing of the music does anything to improve the quality of it....and thats more important to me then 20,000 people at a massive festival.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

Last edited by ChemEnhanced on Feb-21-2009 at 18:42

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced growing isn't always better We will never have large festivals here....not because of the politics involved and not because of the red tape involved but because western society is different then europe. All I want to hear is good music and especially in north america good music is ruined when it becomes the popular choice. Early 90s hip hop was great and now anyone who can put together a few rhymes has a hit single. North American youth, in general, goes with the flow....they will like what everyone else likes and it doesn't matter how bad it is.

There have been quite a number of large festivals held in the US which have featured EDM acts and DJs. There's no question our societies are different, but that doesn't necessarily make the population here any less receptive to the music than elsewhere. I've heard just as much bad EDM as good when I'm in Europe. Likewise, there's still a lot of great independent hiphop in both Canada and the US if you know where to find it. We just think there isn't because of the type of music that dominates the airwaves. I'd suggest checking out this year's Manifesto festival in Toronto if you get a chance - http://www.themanifesto.ca/

I know it's tempting to want to keep a good thing to yourself, but if this kind of music ever wants to be given the same type of recognition and legitimacy as its peers it has to go mainstream. And by the looks of it, it's already made significant progress in North America since the 90's as a result of the internet.

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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

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Originally posted by dEsidEL Those laws that were passed were bylaws ... Many genres of popular music today existed as being underground at some point or another. Us taking the whole "we are holier than thou art" attitude won't help a scene or music grow.

Tell me...how has it grown since it's been taken to the mainstream level? It's been mainstream for a while now....were is the growth and the sponsorship right now?

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Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

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Originally posted by b4k-oz Tell me...how has it grown since it's been taken to the mainstream level? It's been mainstream for a while now....were is the growth and the sponsorship right now?

coca-cola has sponsored a few events at This Is London and Guvernment. i think thats a pretty good start for big corporate sponsorship.

edit: heineken has done a few as well.

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Originally posted by chinamon coca-cola has sponsored a few events at This Is London and Guvernment. i think thats a pretty good start for big corporate sponsorship. edit: heineken has done a few as well.

so did belvedere, red bull, smirnoff etc

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Originally posted by b4k-oz Tell me...how has it grown since it's been taken to the mainstream level? It's been mainstream for a while now....were is the growth and the sponsorship right now?

ha! electronic music is most definately not mainstream in Canada. Yeah, it gets some play on much music and z103, but it's still far from "over the counter" culture. There isn't a single full hour of electronic music, during day time hours, on major canadian radio station (set aside college/university radio). Yeah, there's bpm tv, but that's the only place on the televizzle you can getyour dose.


as for sponsors...
bacardi b-live stage at V-Fest
Hienekin music events
Red Bull has sponsored dance music events

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Originally posted by b4k-oz The damage is done indeed!

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Originally posted by b4k-oz IMO Z103 was not the best way to put our music out. This is one mistakes that cannot be repaired.

what damage could have possibly be done by playing music on the radio?

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nightdreamer

ppl...these were sponsors that were around b4....they aren't new.

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Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)