quote:

Originally posted by palm beats are ok in progressive hiphop

east cost progressive hip hop, or west coast progressive hip hop? what about texan progressive hip hop? no?

real killah hill breaks is the shit, for those who doesnt know thats new york gangsta prog, so yeah east. west is emo house only, like snoop proggy prog.

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Originally posted by palm real killah hill breaks is the shit, for those who doesnt know thats new york gangsta prog, so yeah east. west is emo house only, like snoop proggy prog.

Is that just a bunch of random words you thought up?

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Is that just a bunch of random words you thought up?

no

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Originally posted by Kenny.K Hmmm, the eternal question. A poster the other day, I think it might have been MrJiveBoJingles... pointed out that what was considered trance in the mid-90's was very techy and percussive. He posted a couple of samples of which contained heaps of random percussion, acid lines, etc. If you listen to the 'trance' that is produced these days (big names - Armin, Rank 1, etc), it is significantly techy. Mind you this is coming from a guy that loves tech-trance so notices this. To me trance is techy, apart from the purist's trance with is entirely fluffy and uplifting, and the purist's techno which is all percussion and no melody. Just an opinion but food for thought (just realises I'm on a trance purist forum )

Trance IS an offshoot of techno, genres aren't defined by a noise or types of noise, this isnt what makes them what they are.

Techno is repetition through rhythm and trance is repetition through melody. Trance didn't used to have big breakdowns etc. It used to do exactly what is says - roll on and on with the same melodys going. Its only when it clashed with house (anyone remember epic house? and the label Hooj Tunes?) that its developed a linear format where it progresses through builds to breakdown etc

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Originally posted by flutlicht junky (anyone remember epic house? and the label Hooj Tunes?)

Actually, that was Hooj Choons, which put out a bunch of my favorite tracks from back in the day. They changed to just Hooj when they turned more to the Progressive House side.

However, I agree with you on the definition of trance. To me, trance is what Sasha and John Digweed played in the 90's, which would probably be classified as Progressive House or Progressive Trance now a days. Listen to Northern Exposure 2 to get an idea of what I define as "trance".

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Originally posted by flutlicht junky (anyone remember epic house? and the label Hooj Tunes?)

I do!

Eric also mixed some great tribute sets to Jackpot and Hooj, so he'll know exactly what you mean.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I do! Eric also mixed some great tribute sets to Jackpot and Hooj, so he'll know exactly what you mean.

Thanks. I have all of my classics sets on my website http://www.downgrooves.com/mix.aspx. Check the Mix Catalogue at the bottom of the page.

Classic Dance, Classic Breaks, The Hooj Choons Suite Vols 1, 2 & 3, the Perfecto Collection and the Jackpot Collection are all classics sets.

I'm actually fixing to put out several more in the classics series. I've spent the last week or so going through my old records and recording all of my old vinyl into the computer. It's going to take another month at least to get everything recorded, but once it's done, it'll be easy to get a few more of these done. We have several sets that are unfinished. A couple of classic house sets, a few classic breaks and some classic progressive house (think older bedrock type stuff). We'll be able to finish them now and put it out there.

SO be on the lookout for more classics series very, very soon.

hard trance is not big anymore haha...

but...you have the power to create WHATEVER you want...if you wanna make a song with a harder kick...make one =)

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Originally posted by Eric J Actually, that was Hooj Choons, which put out a bunch of my favorite tracks from back in the day. They changed to just Hooj when they turned more to the Progressive House side. However, I agree with you on the definition of trance. To me, trance is what Sasha and John Digweed played in the 90's, which would probably be classified as Progressive House or Progressive Trance now a days. Listen to Northern Exposure 2 to get an idea of what I define as "trance".

looks like we do tend to adore the same stuff mate... anything trance back in those years: peyote-alcatraz, 2 full moons and a trout (caspar pound), diamond lil's, some eye-q. Then someone came with a big jp8000...

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Originally posted by flutlicht junky Trance IS an offshoot of techno, genres aren't defined by a noise or types of noise, this isnt what makes them what they are.

Jesus H Christ on a bicycle (with a basket)...What the fuck are you going on on about?

Sorry, didn't mean to be aggressive but this is like being in a history lesson hearing that Gandhi came up with E=MC2!!

so.....Techno and House were two strains of electronic music that grew (separately) from essentially disco and the combination of technological advancements in music equipment.

Techno was formed and House was formed, borrowing from and influencing each other.

The reason I make this distiction, is that Epic House, CAME from house. As a melodic and emotional form it was called uplifting house (I've got the memories and flyers to prove it), and the epic house moniker was bascially dropped when the huge melodic breakdowns subsided and the sound became more condensed (later around 96/97).

Then, uplifting house started to get called "Trance" (mainly because of certain magazines need to catagorize genres) and because in a lot of other European countries had something called Euro trance that was very simlilar uplifting house. I remember going record shopping in Germany and switzerland many times and had to change my terminology so instead of asking for uplifting house as I usually did in the UK, I would have to ask for (euro)trance.

Then mixmag exclaimed 98 as the "year of trance" (for the commercial reasons as listed above) and the uplifting house name was no more.

The point is, techno and house, even though having common roots are at their base, two completely different forms of electronic music. Trance as you know it, is a subgenre of House not Techno.

So, trance is NOT an offshoot of Techno, anymore than house is an offshoot of rock.

On another note before trance became the name for uplifting house/epic house, "Trance was this thing with sqiggly basslines fast BPM (140+) that was played in Goa and clubs like Whirlygig. This is what we all call psytrance now.

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Originally posted by flutlicht junky Techno is repetition through rhythm and trance is repetition through melody. Trance didn't used to have big breakdowns etc. It used to do exactly what is says - roll on and on with the same melodys going. Its only when it clashed with house (anyone remember epic house? and the label Hooj Tunes?) that its developed a linear format where it progresses through builds to breakdown etc

I don;t like this definition either - techno is so diverse in it's pure form that trying to shove it on to a pigeon hole like this just doesn;t work. Yes, you are right to a small degree, but that's like saying horses are only used for racing, because you see that a lot.

And yes, "trance" as you know it always had big breakdowns. In fact I can barely think of a single track in my record collection (that spans all of those definitions over time) that was bought while that music was called trance that doesn't have a fair breakdown. psytrance and epic house is a different matter if that's what you meant...


Hooj was a great label and I knew the guys that ran it - in fact the record store in the UK I'm referring to above was owned by the 50% owner of Hooj. And yes, they called, after a point, what was being sold on Hooj as "uplifting house".