as stated in all other dB threads i mix at 100dB

thanks for the info guys... calm down... everyone gets to have their own opinion here...lol

so ill probably get shot for this but im using ozone on the master channel in ableton to do my mastering... then exporting the track from ableton.... do i need to use dithering?

if so what type of dithering?

what effect will the dithering have on the exported track?

and does it depend on what im planning to do with the track?(cd/mp3/etc...)

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm the IEEE specification is something like... half precision (16 bit) single precision (32 bit) double precision (64 bit) etc. anyway... it's all about what the FPU inside the processor was designed to handle. im not sure why it is like this, but it probably has something to do with the binary number system (radix of 2). eg 2^4=16, 2^5=32, 2^6=64, etc. if you deviate from this, then you can't rely on hardware for FPU calculations and it will be slow as hell. i don't know of any CPUs that have hardware support for 24bit float. 24 bit fixed point is obviously a different ball game entirely though. the IEEE has extended precision (80 bit) too. i don't really know how this fits into the grand scheme of things. probably alanzo would know this. edit: x86 word length is 16 bits, so any number less than 16 bits is wasting space. all the above are multiples of 16, as is 80. so yeah, it's something to do with that. i cbf looking further into it haha.

I see... So its OK to have 24 bit as long as its not floating point, because floating point needs to be a power of 2 because of the design of the processor? Why don't they use 16 bit floating point? And what benefit does floating point have in audio terms?

___________________
New Mix: March 2010 Promo
Soundcloud|Facebook

Kismet7.

there is absolutely no reason to export a DAW mix at anything under 0dbfs. As long as the master file is not clipping (limiting) you are fine.

I have no idea why a maastering engineer is telling you to export a daw mix at -6db. Is he too lazy to attenuate the mix(if needs be) using a digital fader before mastering?

The only reason mastering engineers tell you to leave headroom on a digital mix is so that you avoid digital clipping or at least the risk of internal clipping.

Mastering engineers will sometimes purposly clip the mix when mastering at the AD stage if using very high end converters. It is like brick wall limiting, only some high end converters slightly round off the peaks and give better results than using a high end limiter.

quote:

Originally posted by dannib Kismet7. there is absolutely no reason to export a DAW mix at anything under 0dbfs. As long as the master file is not clipping (limiting) you are fine. I have no idea why a maastering engineer is telling you to export a daw mix at -6db. Is he too lazy to attenuate the mix(if needs be) using a digital fader before mastering? The only reason mastering engineers tell you to leave headroom on a digital mix is so that you avoid digital clipping or at least the risk of internal clipping. Mastering engineers will sometimes purposly clip the mix when mastering at the AD stage if using very high end converters. It is like brick wall limiting, only some high end converters slightly round off the peaks and give better results than using a high end limiter.

Yah, Robert Babicz is lazy. And you know more than him, yes yes. Actually you = amazing. How many tracks have you released or mastered btw? Thanks for the WTF.

And you contradict yourself, first you say there is no reason for the mix to be under 0dbfs, and then you give reasons why there should be headroom. Avoiding digital distortion on a DAW is one of the reasons for having headroom. So what was the point of your post?

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

What's kismet been saying this whole time? I've had him on ignore for the last month.

___________________
New Mix: March 2010 Promo
Soundcloud|Facebook

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips I see... So its OK to have 24 bit as long as its not floating point, because floating point needs to be a power of 2 because of the design of the processor?

from my understanding, it needs to be a multiple of the CPUs word length, otherwise it is just a waste. the word length is the amount of bits that can be moved in one chunk. eg. one 32bit float is two words... a 24bit float would be 1.5 words. 4 bits would be wasted, so there's no reason to do this; 32bits would have the same overhead, but obviously offers more precision.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Why don't they use 16 bit floating point? And what benefit does floating point have in audio terms?

in a fixed point number, the decimal position is fixed. in a floating point number, the decimal position can be anywhere. the benefit of floating point numbers is that they can express a far greater range of numbers, as the decimal place shifts. the benefit of this to audio is that each sample can have a greater range of values. therefore, it is more accurate than using a fixed point number. the dynamic range of 24bit fixed is something like ~130db, whereas 32bit float is 150db+.

in order to allow the decimal point to float, we have to use some bits to store where it is. for example, a 32bit float number uses 1 bit for the sign, 8 bits for the decimal position and 23 bits for the actual digits themselves. i assume the reason that 16bit float isn't used is because the overhead of storing the decimal position and the extra cpu load of working with floating numbers outweighs the benefit, over a more simple fixed number.

@kismet7

In a digital environment as the master doesn't clip you are safe. End of. Give me a reason why i should export my mix at -18db as you stated earlier. Please read up on digital audio and then come back.

quote:

Originally posted by dannib @kismet7 In a digital environment as the master doesn't clip you are safe. End of. Give me a reason why i should export my mix at -18db as you stated earlier. Please read up on digital audio and then come back.

Unforunately, Dannib at this point you have no credentials for me to take anything you say without a grain of salt when someone with real credentials says the opposite, and im relaying the information a professional has given me, actually quite a few producers and mastering engineers have given me.

The person who mastered the track below which has made to a few compilations and rocked thousands of club sound systems worldwide says mix to -6dbfs highest peak. Build credibility, read up on reality, and then come back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dEc9efCzbg

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips What's kismet been saying this whole time? I've had him on ignore for the last month.

LoL...yah right, your sorry ass probably hits refresh after every post. I can only hope you have me on ignore, dont want to reply to your idiocacy anyways. Get all your friends or whoever else shares your shitty philosophies on music, to put me on ignore.

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Last edited by Kismet7 on Mar-13-2009 at 10:22

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 Yah, Robert Babicz is lazy.

no, he's not lazy. that's just his answer to every noob who asks this question.

As before. Please tell me why i should mix at -18db. It makes no sense. What happens when i mix into a hardware compressor on the master buss like i sometimes do. The noise floor might become a problem depending on the snr of the device.

i will also not be getting the best out of my monitoring. There is going to be more noise added to the DAC.

If the mastering engineer needs more headroom when mastering a digital recording. Why can't he just digitally turn the mix down before he applies any additive processing?

You obvioulsy dont know what you are talking about. Do you even understand what mastering is and the processes involved?