quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Or you could just turn it around. If they had to pay for each and every track there would have been a lot less dj's and I would have been a gazillion times more likely to be booked and make some extra $ and have more fun in making music.

Its a bit ironic that those who actually plays the tracks and makes money playing them are the ones that are getting them legally for free.

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

I have a bit of insight who does receive my music for free and ironically I don't see them playing my music that often at all . I don't make really popular/mainstream music anyway.

What's even more ironic, if a dj makes a bit of money of the gig chances are he got his music illegaly. Especially if it's a local dj. In my entire circle of close friends who dj only 1 besides me gets his music from legal sources the others all download it from certain websites.

In the end you can't do much about it and I'm just being a bitch here but it's really screwed up to see so many people upholding the wrong morals when it comes to obtaining music.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller I have a bit of insight who does receive my music for free and ironically I don't see them playing my music that often at all . I don't make really popular/mainstream music anyway. What's even more ironic, if a dj makes a bit of money of the gig chances are he got his music illegaly. In the end you can't do much about it and I'm just being a bitch here but it's really screwed up to see so many people upholding the wrong morals when it comes to obtaining music.

Its kinda like that pollution moral, everyone is throwing their garbage in the nature thinking that it doesnt harm anything since their the only ones doing it.
Personally i smile when i see my music being torrented, and smile even more if it has a good amount of downloads.
But in the long run its not good for anyone, i think alot of the best producers in the scene throughout the years stopped making music because of the low income.

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

quote:

heaps of songs always have that restriction shit on beatport...

This is a "minor detail" that often seems to get overlooked when discussing the business of electronic dance music. IMO "territory restrictions" just might be the #1 thing that's f*cking up this industry the most!

I read an article somewhere that said the average DJ/EDM consumer is actually more likely to buy a track instead of illegally downloading it than the average music consumer in general!

I wonder if people really realize how much more potential money there is to be made producing EDM if you just...( now here's a radical revolutionary business concept............ ready? ) LET YOUR CUSTOMERS PAY YOU FOR YOUR PRODUCT!!!

Its just amazing how so many labels spit in the face of a huge percentage of their customer base and then in the same breath complain about illegal downloads!!!

I can't think of any other industry that follows the business model of punishing the customer for having the audacity of trying to give you money for your product!!!

The most important thing to consider if you're a label and/or artist who wants to make money and not piss people off is LICENSE YOUR MUSIC in the major EDM buying countries!!! It just blows my mind that soooo many labels (who are in the business of making money) refuse to accept my hard earned money! I mean its one thing not license your music in a bunch of small obscure countries, but IMO if you're not competent enough to license your music in the US, UK, Australia, Germany etc.. then you shouldn't be in business at all in the first place!

One last thing, I think some of the blame goes to the artists too... IMO you should never sign a track to a label that refuses to accept money from certain "territories"(especially the major EDM buying countries). If you do, then as far as I'm concerned you have no right to EVER complain about your music getting illegally downloaded.

/rant

Of course territory restrictions are irritating but do you even know what you're talking about? They have nothing to do with competence of either a producer or the label.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Of course territory restrictions are irritating but do you even know what you're talking about? They have nothing to do with competence of either a producer or the label.

they have nothing to do with the competence of a label? its the label's responsibility to license their own music right? And as far as the artist is concerned, like I said IMO they should make sure the label they are signing with isn't refusing to sell their track in the major EDM buying territories.

edit: also I would say that territory restrictions are worse than just "irritating"... its causing a lot of labels and artists(who put their heart and soul into what they do) to miss out on a lot of potential profits and alienating a large percentage of the customer base.

Last edited by Stealth on Apr-03-2009 at 05:35

It's just business. Most labels that do territory resticted releases have to do so because a certain contract forces them to do so. If they could get the better end of the deal and get a global release of course they would. But that's not always that easy.

Most artists won't miss out on $ either, what's a 10er on a 100$ (which is just about what the average release makes). Of course a producer has put in heart and soul but all of them should realise there isn't any $ left in this business. Most of the times releases are territory restricted because the label involved has licensed the tracks themselves and the actual owner of the master-rights doesn't allow them to sell globally. That's just protecting part of their own investment which I would say is a thing that one would need in order to be(come) a competent company. The others just have to deal with it.

As far as saying artists are alienating their fanbase is a total non-argument. A can say I've been annoyed by territory restrictions, but only rarely. It hasn't stopped me from looking up those artists at all.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Apr-03-2009 at 05:53

"It's just business."
what kind of business is that that punishes the customer(and the artist) for having the audacity of trying to give you money for your product!!!

"Most labels that do territory resticted releases have to do so because a certain contract forces them to do so."
no they don't have to. they can choose not to alienate a huge percentage of their customer base.

"If they could get the better end of the deal and get a global release of course they would. But that's not always that easy."
I can't think of any scenerio where a global release wouldn't be the best most profitable option.

"Most artists won't miss out on $ either, what's a 10er on a 100$ (which is just about what the average release makes)."
Yes they will miss out on $! I disagree with your premise that the average release only makes 100$ and that if the track was released globally the producer would only make an extra 10er.

"Of course a producer has put in heart and soul but all of them should realise there isn't any $ left in this business."
There is a LOT more money to be made if you would just LET THE CUSTOMER PAY FOR THE MUSIC!

"Most of the times releases are territory restricted because the label involved has licensed the tracks themselves and the actual owner of the master-rights doesn't allow them to sell globally."
doesn't the label own the master rights (and therefore control) their own music? As far as I'm concerned if a label gives up rights to their music to an entity that won't sell it globally(or at least in the major EDM buying territories/countries) then that label is incompetent (at best). Again I can't think of any scenario where a label (or any business) would make more money by selling a product to a only a small percentage of potential customers.

"That's just protecting part of their own investment which I would say is a thing that one would need in order to be(come) a competent company."
Isn't the whole idea of an investment to get the greatest return for your investment?
edit: btw, how does a label protect their investment by limiting the territories/countries they choose to release it in? what are they protecting it from?

"The others just have to deal with it."
thats a great attitude. unfortunately thats pretty consistent with many EDM labels these days...

"As far as saying artists are alienating their fanbase is a total non-argument. A can say I've been annoyed by territory restrictions, but only rarely. It hasn't stopped me from looking up those artists at all."
you've got to be kidding me. so let me get this straight... you're cool with the fact that you have to go through the hassle of searching for a way to illegally download it because you had the audacity of trying to give the label and artist money for their own track? That doesn't make you feel alienated? I know nothing pisses me off more than auditioning an amazing track I just have to have and then getting the "territory restricted" message when I try to buy it!

Last edited by Stealth on Apr-03-2009 at 08:46

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth This is a "minor detail" that often seems to get overlooked when discussing the business of electronic dance music. IMO "territory restrictions" just might be the #1 thing that's f*cking up this industry the most! I read an article somewhere that said the average DJ/EDM consumer is actually more likely to buy a track instead of illegally downloading it than the average music consumer in general! I wonder if people really realize how much more potential money there is to be made producing EDM if you just...( now here's a radical revolutionary business concept............ ready? ) LET YOUR CUSTOMERS PAY YOU FOR YOUR PRODUCT!!! Its just amazing how so many labels spit in the face of a huge percentage of their customer base and then in the same breath complain about illegal downloads!!! I can't think of any other industry that follows the business model of punishing the customer for having the audacity of trying to give you money for your product!!! The most important thing to consider if you're a label and/or artist who wants to make money and not piss people off is LICENSE YOUR MUSIC in the major EDM buying countries!!! It just blows my mind that soooo many labels (who are in the business of making money) refuse to accept my hard earned money! I mean its one thing not license your music in a bunch of small obscure countries, but IMO if you're not competent enough to license your music in the US, UK, Australia, Germany etc.. then you shouldn't be in business at all in the first place! One last thing, I think some of the blame goes to the artists too... IMO you should never sign a track to a label that refuses to accept money from certain "territories"(especially the major EDM buying countries). If you do, then as far as I'm concerned you have no right to EVER complain about your music getting illegally downloaded. /rant

A lot of good points.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Last edited by Kismet7 on Apr-03-2009 at 06:52

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth lots of words

Allthough some of your points maybe valid, it IS JUST BUSINESS. You're really incredibly naive and show little knowledge about the actual business part. .

Of course worldwide licensing is more profitable in pretty much every case. But that does not guarantee the involved parties will agree on doing so. That's the way business works. Get real, deal with it. Getting angry over this is understandable but will not get you anywhere unfortunately.

I'll take some time on this one quote below, I made clear how I feel on the others and still stand by those statements.

quote:

Isn't the whole idea of an investment to get the greatest return for your investment? edit: btw, how does a label protect their investment by limiting the territories/countries they choose to release it in? what are they protecting it from?

Example #1:
Artist
Label A signs track worldwide
Label B gets a territorial restricted license from Label A.

Label A wants to make as much as possible, so label B would likely pay either a fixed fee or a percentage based on sales.
In case of a fixed fee the artist has royalty rights over the sales from Label A as well as B or he gets a large percentage from the licensing, all parties happy.
In case it's a percentage the following would apply: label A makes more on direct sales through their own label (and thus the artist does as well!). Restricting the territory on the license for label B would ensure a significant part of the sales will run through their own label thus increasing revenue.




Example #2:
Artist
Label A signs track from artist with territory restriction on artists request.
Label B signs track from artist with terriry restriction elsewhere.

2 labels involved. Double promotion and possible double advances for the artist, possibly extra (re)mixes and extra exposure. This happens. Unfortunately this setup is quite likely to have different release dates per label, which could be counter-productive on sales or the second release could keep interest up on the track boosting it's overall sales in both territories.

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Apr-03-2009 at 09:17

Please don't answer in bold, it's really annoying and made me read only half your post

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Upcoming releases:
Hernandes ft. Stine Groove - Without You (Kyota remix) (Redux Recordings)
Kyota - Senegal (Flashover Recordings)