quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 If hardware will die out, why are synths like the JP8 and vintage synths rising in price on Ebay?

Could also be down to the rise in the cost of living at the moment due to the recession, but there also appears to be less of them around atm.

On a different note, there is something to be said for the magic of hardware, but it's not essential to make quality music.
Liam Howlet (The Prodigy) wrote Always Outnumbered Never Outgunned on Reason, not too shabby if you ask me.
If you know how to use your tools then you can over come most issues be it software or hardware.

Pro studios these days have most major VSTs available to them anyway and music should really be judged by what comes out of the speakers at the end of the day, not how it got there.

Hardware is pretty pointless if you don't know how to use it and will make you sound exactly the same as the person with VSTs who doesn't know how to use them.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by mezzir Because of dumb ****s like you. And hardware won't die out. There will always be a market for vintage stuff, but the price of vintage gear in no way reflects an increasing reliance on it. Simple market forces, son. Also, deadmau has all the hardware in the world and his production is absolutely fucking fantastic. That said, his music is boring as shit because musically it falls completely flat. Production will never take the place of musicality.

Well if you followed the thread, and didnt jump in like a headless chicken, you would know that Lables, Clubs, the public seem to be enjoying music that is well engineered over music that is musically sound, and my argument has been that people who are musically talented should invest in better equipment so we can flip the script on that and have people who are musically talented making music that is also well engineered through proper equipment. Yet morons like you, echosystem, dannib, and friends (who really contribute nothing here), came in here trying to "pwn" me against FACTS lol, all you do is look like idiots to me.

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 Well if you followed the thread, and didnt jump in like a headless chicken, you would know that Lables, Clubs, the public seem to be enjoying music that is well engineered over music that is musically sound, and my argument has been that people who are musically talented should invest in better equipment so we can flip the script on that and have people who are musically talented making music that is also well engineered through proper equipment. Yet morons like you, echosystem, dannib, and friends (who really contribute nothing here), came in here trying to "pwn" me against FACTS lol, all you do is look like idiots to me.

Not trying to jump on any band wagon, but do you play out as a DJ? Clubbers generally (who are not DJs and/or Producers) know very little about engineering or able to spot the difference for that matter, they will react totally on musical content and wouldn't know what a VST is and wouldn't not be able to tell you the name of a hardware synth either.

There are too many people who are making big dance tunes on Software for your arguement to hold any weight.

Personally I like the feel of hardware, but combine it with software to get the best out of what I am looking for as there are definitely pro's and cons with both.

In this industry you have to keep an open mind, go too far down one line and you may find that it is in actual fact you that is selling yourself short.

There was exactly the same debate when synths first started to appear from traditional musicians. You also have hybrid synths/VSTs that fit neither description that utilise both worlds so it's not a clear cut arguement.

Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Not trying to jump on any band wagon, but do you play out as a DJ? Clubbers generally (who are not DJs and/or Producers) know very little about engineering or able to spot the difference for that matter, they will react totally on musical content and wouldn't know what a VST is and wouldn't not be able to tell you the name of a hardware synth either. There are too many people who are making big dance tunes on Software for your arguement to hold any weight. Personally I like the feel of hardware, but combine it with software to get the best out of what I am looking for as there are definitely pro's and cons with both. In this industry you have to keep an open mind, go too far down one line and you may find that it is in actual fact you that is selling yourself short. There was exactly the same debate when synths first started to appear from traditional musicians. You also have hybrid synths/VSTs that fit neither description that utilise both worlds so it's not a clear cut arguement. Nem

Best sounding and most timeless music i've heard at home, in a car, and at a club has been made on good hardware. Forgettable music i've heard has often been made on Software. People might not know, but their positive reactions to music often is due to well engineered music (afforded by proper equipment), than to purely software based music.

Using a sequencer to sequence and make music, yet using analogue hardware at the sound creation, design, and processing level, the great sound is derived from hardware, and the sequencer merely is a middleman to that sound. This is where people are getting lost in thinking "omg he used Fruity Loops 3.Xx, he did it all on softwarerezsezz". So i'm saving people time, and taking them right to the source, the sound likely comes from good analogue equipment, while others here like to mislead people to think it can be achieved purely in fruity loops. I'd like to see people that might be talented musically, achieving great sound, instead of being held back by just using software. A Hybrid setup is the best.

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Last edited by Kismet7 on Apr-10-2009 at 01:28

You know what, fuck it.

Prove it.

You seem so set to convince us that software can in no way recreate any of the magic that is hardware, and that hardware always sounds better, and software always sounds bad. While I may have just insulted you, I didn't pretend to do much else, I'd really like to see you actually throw some evidence behind this point of yours.

___________________

http://www.youtube.com/mezzir

quote:

Originally posted by mezzir You know what, fuck it. Prove it. You seem so set to convince us that software can in no way recreate any of the magic that is hardware, and that hardware always sounds better, and software always sounds bad. While I may have just insulted you, I didn't pretend to do much else, I'd really like to see you actually throw some evidence behind this point of yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuqxioVL1Xs

You can't do anything in software that sounds as good as that. There are emulations, but if you sharpen the resolution, the emotional impact of the sounds are something I rarely hear in software (it happens at times but its rare.) With good analogue equipment, the sounds easily impact the mind and emotions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWAc_b0mjWY

Both tracks are over 10 years old, and will always remain relevant because of what was used to create them, aside from their musical qualities. You and I can write the most beautiful piece of music, but if it is not rendered by proper equipment, it will never have a timeless sound attached to it, and the emotion and mind impact wont be there, to the extent that music made with good equipment impacts the listener. Do you want to just make music, or do you want to make music that actually moves the listener mentally and emotionally?

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Last edited by Kismet7 on Apr-10-2009 at 01:55

haha sorry but... im quoting you to my producer friends that dont browse trance addict, and they're all laughing at you. you're contradicting yourself. thanks for that.

i think we should have a little comp those with software try and create a simple track aiming for best sound and the same with hardware

quote:

Originally posted by owien i think we should have a little comp those with software try and create a simple track aiming for best sound and the same with hardware

The hardware guys will obliterate sound wise...software guys might do more interseting things musically though. And thats the point, a hybrid setup that utilizes hardware for sound (what this topic is about), and software for making use of ideas, would be the best situation for making great sounding music.

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

in fact fuck it i will have a play over the next coming weeks and see if i can pull it off. he he sounds like fun oh and i like the tracks posted up in youtube in refrance to your post

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuqxioVL1Xs You can't do anything in software that sounds as good as that. There are emulations, but if you sharpen the resolution, the emotional impact of the sounds are something I rarely hear in software (it happens at times but its rare.) With good analogue equipment, the sounds easily impact the mind and emotions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWAc_b0mjWY Both tracks are over 10 years old, and will always remain relevant because of what was used to create them, aside from their musical qualities. You and I can write the most beautiful piece of music, but if it is not rendered by proper equipment, it will never have a timeless sound attached to it, and the emotion and mind impact wont be there, to the extent that music made with good equipment impacts the listener. Do you want to just make music, or do you want to make music that actually moves the listener mentally and emotionally?

Okay I see what you're arguing.

Here's the deal: your argument is almost correct, but one of the assumptions you're relying on is what I disagree with. Old analogue equipment has a definite sound to it, and I can hear it in this track, no argument there. However, it is quite a jump to say that the analogue sound is objectively better, in all respects, than a digital sound. You may prefer it, no one can question that, but there's no way of substantiating a claim that analogue objectively sounds better, and thats where your argument falls short. So you can go and say I prefer the sound of old analogue equipment, but to state that as a fact, not an opinion, is a falsehood.

___________________

http://www.youtube.com/mezzir

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 The hardware guys will obliterate sound wise...software guys might do more interseting things musically though. And thats the point, a hybrid setup that utilizes hardware for sound (what this topic is about), and software for making use of ideas, would be the best situation for making great sounding music.

i'm not trolling you just sounds like a interesting challenge for me. i dont own hardware so i will have any real point off referance.